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jason81582
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
Location: DC
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 Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: College basketball stats available? Help |
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Hey, looking for some help...
Long time reader, first time poster. I'm about to embark on an NBA stats project that requires the use of NCAA bball stats however I've been totally unable to find a suitable source. The NCAA site doesn't include minutes played and barely has the basics, b-r is incomplete at best (missing college stats for some elite pros), and datebasebasketball doesn't have college stats. I dream of a dougs stats page for college ball but can't find anything like that. Anyone have any ideas? I'm not doing any proprietary work so if someone can share a db with me, that would be AWESOME!
I appreciate any help or suggestions! thanks. |
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Mike Goodman
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 1465
Location: Delphi, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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How about -
www.kenpom.com
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40% of all statistics are wrong |
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Jon Scott
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Location: Philadelphia Area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: |
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It's not really clear to me exactly what you're looking for.
Unfortunately, college basketball information is immensely fragmented. Most of the information compiled by fans is in relation to a particular program, for obvious reasons.
For example, my own site is both a historical and statistical website for the University of Kentucky, and the stats are as comprehensive as any team site you're likely to find (in any sport, college or pro). There are a number of other excellent and historically comprehensive websites devoted to other school's basketball programs such as Mark DeVault's West Virginia and John Reagan's Georgetown Hoya sites along with a number of others (Syracuse, Duke, Oklahoma, Cincinnati etc.) which are useful but not nearly as comprehensive.
You can access a number of these sites at the following link on my main stats webpage.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/statistics.html#StatLinks
* I should note that there are likely a lot of dead links there. Updating external links is not something I do often.
There are also a number of general NCAA sites but most of those are focused on the tournament so the data is partial.
At one time on sportstats.com Charlie Board had up-to-date ACC stats (going back to the inception of the conference in the early 50's) for all teams and players. After the expansion of the league he was miffed enough to stop updating the data, but the earlier information is still there and fairly comprehensive. Also on that site I had some AP ranking data which has since been removed and JazzyJ had a lot of stats of top teams (ie Final Four teams) along with draft information (including individual stats of draftees), which has also been removed. I could probably get you in touch with Jazzy if you wanted.
You already mentioned the NCAA, which can be very useful although they are notoriously hard to locate on their website. I don't know if you're aware but beyond the standard Men's basketball stats book and Final Four stats book, they also publish a book called "NCAA Men's Basketball Finest" which provides career stats of the the top players and coaches in NCAA history which can be very useful.
Another avenue which has become much more universal in the past five years is for individual schools to provide their media guides online. These are great resources. Some but not all schools provide career stats for their top players (typically 1000 point scorers etc.)
Again, let me know exactly what it is you're looking for and in particular what information you are currently missing and I might be of more help.
Jon |
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MCT
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if you're looking for general college stats, or just stats for players who went on to play in the NBA. I'm also not sure if you're looking for current/recent players, or historical. On both points, the suggestions below focus on the latter:
Matt Mauer's web site (thedraftreview.com) has college stats for many players, including virtually every player selected in the first or second round of an NBA draft since 1950.
Older versions of the defunct sportsstats.com pages that Jon mentioned are still available on the internet archive (web.archive.org). Be careful to enter the address as "sportsstats", not "sportstats" (the latter is a different site). Jazzy J's page had college stats for hundreds of players drafted by the NBA or CBA between 1982 and 2003.
Annual editions of the NBA Register from 1980 onward include college stats for all players who appeared in the NBA the year before (most years also have college stats for notable rookies, all-time greats, and coaches). I have every edition of the Register from 1980-81 to 2004-05. With the proliferation of stats available on the internet, the Register has not been sold to the general public since 2006-07, although it apparently still exists as a publication distributed internally by the NBA to its teams. |
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Matthew Maurer
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the love MCT I will have the 3rdb& 4th rounds done soon!
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jason81582
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
Location: DC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the help. i've been trudging away on b-r getting whatever college stats they have. i have a lot but I can alway use more. what i need is historical college stats of nba players. i'll only be using their college career stat line in my analysis.
i also have a need for historical team quality data. i could use either won/loss record, win pct or even historical national rankings could help. this one is a new request... |
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MCT
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| jason81582 wrote: | | i also have a need for historical team quality data. i could use either won/loss record, win pct or even historical national rankings could help. this one is a new request... |
I don't know of any comprehenisive source for won-lost records. Your best bet is probably team media guides, which Jon mentioned earlier. Many schools have them posted on the web, but you'd have to look for them on a team-by-team basis.
sportsstats.com used to have a really interesting page with information on AP rankings from the time the poll started in 1949 through the end of the 2000-01 season (when the pages' creators apparently stopped maintaining it). Like the other sportsstats pages discussed earlier, I think it's been taken down, but it can still be accessed via the internet archive.
Two things to bear in mind when looking at old AP poll rankings: 1) The poll was expanded to 25 around 1989; before that it never had more than 20 places. 2) From January 1, 1961 through the end of the 1967-68 season, the AP poll was only a top 10, even though it was a top 20 both before and after that time period. |
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Jon Scott
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Location: Philadelphia Area
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| MCT wrote: |
sportsstats.com used to have a really interesting page with information on AP rankings from the time the poll started in 1949 through the end of the 2000-01 season (when the pages' creators apparently stopped maintaining it). Like the other sportsstats pages discussed earlier, I think it's been taken down, but it can still be accessed via the internet archive.
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The AP rankings portion on sportsstats was my website. Charlie Board (who had done a lot of work archiving ACC stats) and Bryan Arendall (a Kentucky fan who I've known for a long time who is also very interested in stats etc.) both worked to provide the raw data. [The NCAA has the data in one of their publications but it' wasn't in electronic form and there were numerous errors which Charlie and Bryan sorted out and tracked down.] James Armstrong, who owns the sportsstats site, provided us space for the web pages.
There were a few reasons why I stopped updating the site, but primarily it was because 1.) I had received additional information and was working to incorporate UPI ranking data, however it involved a complete change to the structure of the website (and thus to the underlying scripts in the database which generated the web pages) and 2.) my version of the database itself went through a significant revision which required changes to many of the scripts.
So there was a lot of work in the project and I never got around to concentrating long enough to get it finished. Also during that time ESPN started to archive their AP poll data so between my site and ESPN, it was possible to access the data online (albeit ESPN didn't break the data down by school, or show all the data for a given season etc. like my site did, they only provided the results by the week of the poll.) The presence of ESPN (and later the NCAA) information on-line made it less imperative to get my site updated.
I was surprised to recently find that the site had been removed from sportsstats, since it still was useful even if outdated. (Obviously I still have the pages on my local computer.) Maybe someday I'll get back to updating the site and relaunching it somewhere but I must admit it's low on the priority list. (in fact, the next time I do something like this it probably will be a high school All-American site, something that took me (and others) years to locate and collect the information.)
If so, it seems the trend for data like this is now is more toward a Wikipedia style setting, which is good from a collaborative standpoint but problematic in terms of controlling and ensuring the accuracy of the data along with utilizing things like databases to hold and manipulate the information into a useable form.
Jon |
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MCT
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of updates for anyone with an ongoing interest in this subject:
1) basketball-reference.com recently expanded its coverage of college stats to include most players who played in the NBA during or after the 1979-80 season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4435). For players whose careers ended before that season, b-r.com's coverage is still much less complete, generally limited to some All-Time Greats.
Justin indicates that he received this data from researcher Pete Palmer. I suspect that one of Palmer's sources was a set of NBA Registers. College stats were first published in the 1980-81 edition of the Register, which included players who were active during the 1979-80 season. This would explain why coverage of stats begins with players active at that point. It would also explain the inclusion of those All-Time Greats (from the All-Time Greats section of the Register).
2) Matt Mauer has been adding stats for 3rd and 4th round picks to his web site, the draftreview.com. He currently has stats up for players drafted in those rounds (as well as the 1st and 2nd rounds) through 1975. Matt's site also includes some information not available on b-r.com, including juco stats, detail about what a player was doing during seasons he wasn't playing college basketball (e.g., missed season due to injury, transfer, left school to turn pro overseas prior to being eligible for NBA draft), and which players were hardship/early entry declarers. |
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Matthew Maurer
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| MCT wrote: | A couple of updates for anyone with an ongoing interest in this subject:
1) basketball-reference.com recently expanded its coverage of college stats to include most players who played in the NBA during or after the 1979-80 season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4435). For players whose careers ended before that season, b-r.com's coverage is still much less complete, generally limited to some All-Time Greats.
Justin indicates that he received this data from researcher Pete Palmer. I suspect that one of Palmer's sources was a set of NBA Registers. College stats were first published in the 1980-81 edition of the Register, which included players who were active during the 1979-80 season. This would explain why coverage of stats begins with players active at that point. It would also explain the inclusion of those All-Time Greats (from the All-Time Greats section of the Register).
2) Matt Mauer has been adding stats for 3rd and 4th round picks to his web site, the draftreview.com. He currently has stats up for players drafted in those rounds (as well as the 1st and 2nd rounds) through 1975. Matt's site also includes some information not available on b-r.com, including juco stats, detail about what a player was doing during seasons he wasn't playing college basketball (e.g., missed season due to injury, transfer, left school to turn pro overseas prior to being eligible for NBA draft), and which players were hardship/early entry declarers. |
| MCT wrote: | A couple of updates for anyone with an ongoing interest in this subject:
1) basketball-reference.com recently expanded its coverage of college stats to include most players who played in the NBA during or after the 1979-80 season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4435). For players whose careers ended before that season, b-r.com's coverage is still much less complete, generally limited to some All-Time Greats.
Justin indicates that he received this data from researcher Pete Palmer. I suspect that one of Palmer's sources was a set of NBA Registers. College stats were first published in the 1980-81 edition of the Register, which included players who were active during the 1979-80 season. This would explain why coverage of stats begins with players active at that point. It would also explain the inclusion of those All-Time Greats (from the All-Time Greats section of the Register).
2) Matt Mauer has been adding stats for 3rd and 4th round picks to his web site, the draftreview.com. He currently has stats up for players drafted in those rounds (as well as the 1st and 2nd rounds) through 1975. Matt's site also includes some information not available on b-r.com, including juco stats, detail about what a player was doing during seasons he wasn't playing college basketball (e.g., missed season due to injury, transfer, left school to turn pro overseas prior to being eligible for NBA draft), and which players were hardship/early entry declarers. |
With great respect to Mr. Kubatko's website Palmer's main refferences were indeed the NBA register's.... I don't know how one can call that research but oh well... Were almost done researching the guys in the 5th & 6th rounds. I will be adding available totals are on all players on the site thanks to a new script. Still a ton left to do.
_________________
NBA Draft Historian
www.thedraftreview.com |
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Jon Scott
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Location: Philadelphia Area
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jason81582 wrote: | thanks for the help. i've been trudging away on b-r getting whatever college stats they have. i have a lot but I can alway use more. what i need is historical college stats of nba players. i'll only be using their college career stat line in my analysis.
i also have a need for historical team quality data. i could use either won/loss record, win pct or even historical national rankings could help. this one is a new request... |
Here is an extremely useful link that I was made aware of a few months ago.
http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careersearch
I used it mainly for looking up school's year-by-year won-lost record and for looking up coaching records, but there's a lot of additional information such as individual stats going back about 10 years etc.
You can also search by individual player or coach.
BTW, I recently used some of this information to look at the college basketball all-time wins race going back to nearly the beginning of the sport, which I found to be an interesting glimpse into some of the early successful programs around the country.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/ncaaalltimewinstrends.html
Jon |
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mtamada
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon Scott wrote: | BTW, I recently used some of this information to look at the college basketball all-time wins race going back to nearly the beginning of the sport, which I found to be an interesting glimpse into some of the early successful programs around the country.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/ncaaalltimewinstrends.html
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Nice work. In those early years, you probably want to put an asterisk by Chicago, because even though it was a big-time sports power back then, it has been a Div III school for decades (and famously eliminated its football team, and I think all varsity sports, around the 1940s). If schools such as Wabash and Allegheny get asterisks due to Div III membership, Chicago should too.
I wonder about Washington State Univ appearing amongst the leaders 1925-1960. I suppose the Pac 10 (and its predecessors the Pac 8 and the whatever it was called before that, the Pacific Athletic Conference or whatever it was) must've had an early, and large, schedule enabling schools such as WSU and Oregon State to appear on those early leaderboards. But other Pac 10 teams do not appear on those early lists, and moreover WSU has had trouble staying competitive in recent decades. What did Wazzou (as both alums and rivals call it) have going for it in those early days? Gene Conley's the only mid-century-or-earlier well-known hoopster who comes to mind. According to b-r.com, Gail Bishop and Ed Gayda preceded Conley into the NBA, but they played a whopping 70 games combined. |
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