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Tradeoff between defensive rebounding and blocking?
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:34 pm
by colts18
I was looking at Roy Hibbert's low defensive rebounding numbers and wondering if there was a tradeoff between blocking shots and defensive rebounding. If you go up for the block, you will be out of position for the rebound. So I decided to do an analysis to see if its true. I went to B-R play index and looked at every big man listed at F-C, C, or C-F who played 5,000 minutes from 1980-present. There was 251 big men who fit that criteria. they ranged in height from 6' 7" to 7' 7".
I came in expecting a negative relationship between DRB% and BLK%, but in fact its the opposite. There was a .242 correlation between DRB% and BLK%. That meant players who block more shots also get more rebounds. Among the players listed at 7 feet or taller, the relationship was a little weaker, .193 R value. For the Big men under 7 feet, the R value was .257. For the guys with a 5%+ BLK%, they had an average DRB% of 20.6% while the guys with a 2 BLK% or less were at 18.4%. The guys with a 25 DRB% had an average BLK% of 4.1% while the guys with a DRB% under 15% averaged a 2.4% BLK%.
I'm not sure what to make of this data.
Re: Tradeoff between defensive rebounding and blocking?
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:46 pm
by Crow
I believe there is a tradeoff at the play level sometimes but the talent effect apparently is greater with the best talent being better at both at game level.
We might want to look at the tradeoff at team level too. And possibility age and weight. And pace. And eFG% allowed.
Defensive rebounding % and average roster average are negatively correlated but only slightly. -.065.
Defensive rebounding % and team block % are also negatively correlated but just ever so slightly -.0024.
Re: Tradeoff between defensive rebounding and blocking?
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:52 pm
by xkonk
Outside of the Hibbert example, I guess I wouldn't have predicted a negative relationship. As Crow implied (or as I'll claim he implied), on any particular play going for a block could put you out of rebounding position. But in general, the guys blocking shots are going to be near the rim and thus generally also in a position to rebound. Alternatively, or additionally, the guys asked to stay behind and rebound as opposed to leak out on breaks are going to be the last line of defense by default and thus able to defend shots.
Re: Tradeoff between defensive rebounding and blocking?
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:25 pm
by Mike G
As primary rebounder for his team, Hibbert has about the lowest rebounding rates in the league.
Lance Stephenson, though, is about the best rebounding guard in the league.
Here's a ranking of Reb/G , along with Reb/36 and Blk/G, for (primary rebounder) + (best rebounding guard)
Code: Select all
tm Big Rb/G Guard Rb/G total Rb/36 Bk/G
LAC Jordan 14.0 Paul 4.6 18.6 19.2 2.5
Min Love 13.3 Rubio 4.6 17.9 19.1 .6
Hou Howard 12.6 Harden 4.7 17.4 18.6 2.4
Chi Noah 11.3 Butler 5.0 16.3 18.4 2.1
Det Drummond 12.8 Jennings 3.2 16.0 18.9 1.9
GSW Bogut 10.7 Iguodala 4.9 15.6 19.8 2.2
Por Aldridge 11.4 Matthews 4.0 15.4 15.9 1.2
Orl Vucevic 10.8 Oladipo 4.4 15.2 17.6 1.5
Ind Hibbert 7.6 Stephenson 7.3 14.9 17.4 2.5
Phx Plumlee 8.4 Tucker 6.4 14.9 19.6 1.7
Okl Ibaka 8.7 Westbrook 5.9 14.7 17.4 2.6
Cha Jefferson 10.4 Henderson 4.1 14.6 16.2 1.5
Sac Cousins 11.6 Mclemore 2.8 14.5 18.5 1.4
NOP Davis 10.2 Holiday 4.2 14.4 15.8 3.4
Mem Randolph 10.3 Allen 4.0 14.3 18.3 .8
tm Big Rb/G Guard Rb/G total Rb/36 Bk/G
LAL Gasol 10.1 Johnson 3.9 14.0 15.3 2.5
NYK Chandler 9.3 Shumpert 4.5 13.8 19.3 1.6
SAS Duncan 10.0 Green 3.3 13.3 18.1 2.9
Tor Valanciunas 8.6 Derozan 4.6 13.1 17.0 1.4
Was Gortat 8.9 Wall 4.3 13.1 15.2 2.0
Den Hickson 9.3 Lawson 3.5 12.8 15.9 .9
Mil Henson 8.0 Antetokounmpo 4.6 12.6 17.3 2.9
Atl Millsap 8.3 Korver 4.1 12.3 13.8 1.4
Cle Varejao 10.3 Miles 2.1 12.3 16.8 1.1
Bos Sullinger 8.3 Bradley 3.9 12.2 16.2 .9
Uta Favors 9.0 Burke 3.1 12.1 15.1 1.5
Mia Bosh 6.8 Wade 4.8 11.6 14.3 1.5
Phl Hawes 8.5 Orton 2.8 11.3 17.7 2.0
Brk Garnett 6.7 Livingston 3.2 9.9 17.2 1.2
Dal Dalembert 6.4 Ellis 3.4 9.8 15.8 1.4
Avg combined Reb/36 is 17.2, so this Pacers duo is a bit above avg there, too.
Some teams have 2 high-rebounding guards (Tor) or 2 bigs who play like bigs.
Marc Gasol averages 6.5 Reb/G. His 11.6 TRb% is barely above the 10.0 league avg.