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My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:33 am
by D-rell
*Regular Season/Post Season stats included
*minimum of 800 games (Reg/PS)
*All Player stats adjusted for League Quality (LQ)
*Est. for players pre-1978 based on REBS/AST/FT%/FG%/PositionAVGs
*All players careers translated to begin in 1990 (basis)
*Player Value = a combination of Alternate Win Score, VORP, and a calculated Defensive Rating (DWS, Drtg, Defensive Teams, etc.)

Code: Select all

#	Name	     Player Value
1	W Chamebrlain	26.66
2	Michael Jordan	26.19
3	LeBron James	24.90
4	Hakeem Olajuwon	24.48
5	David Robinson	24.15
6	Tim Duncan	23.48
7	K Abdul-Jabbar	23.27
8	Larry Bird	23.25
9	Artis Gilmore	23.16
10	Magic Johnson	23.15
11	Charles Barkley	22.59
12	S O'Neal	22.45
13	Dwyane Wade	22.31
14	Dwight Howard	22.18
15	Bill Russell	22.10
16	Julius Erving	21.81
17	Kevin Garnett	21.65
18	Karl Malone	21.62
19	Kobe Bryant	21.54
20	John Stockton	21.49
21	Dave Cowens	20.30
22	Bob Lanier	20.27
23	Jerry West	20.25
24	Moses Malone	20.07
25	Walt Frazier	20.03
26	Clyde Drexler	19.81
27	Jerry Lucas	19.60
28	Alonzo Mourning	19.58
29	Oscar Roberston	19.51
30	Ben Wallace	19.42
31	Shawn Marion	19.32
32	Scottie Pippen	19.21
33	Dirk Nowitzki	19.20
34	Chris Webber	19.10
35	Patrick Ewing	19.09
36	Chris Mullin	19.01
37	Jason Kidd	18.91
38	Elgin Baylor	18.89
39	Sidney Moncrief	18.72
40	Nate Thurmond	18.67
41	Tracy McGrady	18.64
42	Dikembe Mutombo	18.64
43	Dominiqe Wilkins	18.61
44	Bobby Jones	18.55
45	Walt Bellamy	18.45
46	Elvin Hayes	18.44
47	Rick Barry	18.01
48	Allen Iverson	17.92
49	Adrian Dantley	17.87
50	Isiah Thomas	17.86
I'm working on an aging factor..

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:12 am
by bchaikin
any particular reason for no one who played primarily in the 1950s?...

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:42 am
by Mike G
*All Player stats adjusted for League Quality (LQ)
How is this determined?
9 Artis Gilmore 23.16
Did you determine quality of 1972 ABA relative to 1990 NBA?
28 Alonzo Mourning 19.58
29 Oscar Roberston 19.51
Hmmmm

Are you getting at a Best Season type Greatest player?
Do playoffs count more heavily (per game or per minute) than seasons?

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:50 am
by Mike G
Conspicuously absent: Pettit, Pierce, Havlicek, Schayes, Cousy, Parish, Gasol are in my Top 40.

Surprising inclusions: Moncrief, B Jones, Mullin, Wallace don't make my Top 100.
*Player Value = a combination of Alternate Win Score, VORP ...
I'll be the kid in class who raises his hand and admits, I don't know what these are.

I've sorted your Top 50 by year of entry into the NBA/ABA. And it looks like you favor the late 60s players over the 50s-early 60s; and the early 70s over the 60s.
Yet this was the period of super-expansion, as the NBA went from 9 teams to 17, plus a bunch of ABA teams sucking talent away from the NBA.

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:27 pm
by D-rell
The "official list" *age-factor included

Code: Select all

#	Name		              Player Value
1	Michael Jordan		        28.73
2	Wilt Chamebrlain		      28.51
3	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar		   27.78
4	Hakeem Olajuwon		       27.10
5	Tim Duncan		            26.59
6	LeBron James		          26.37
7	Artis Gilmore		         26.26
8	David Robinson		        25.81
9	Karl Malone		           25.64
10	Shaquille O'Neal		     25.09
11	Magic Johnson		        24.81
12	Kevin Garnett		        24.75
13	Larry Bird		           24.73
14	John Stockton		        24.53
15	Charles Barkley		      24.45
16	Julius Erving		        24.44
17	Kobe Bryant		          24.18
18	Bill Russell		         23.76
19	Moses Malone		         23.37
20	Dwyane Wade		          23.31
21	Dwight Howard		        23.18
22	Clyde Drexler		        22.35
23	Jason Kidd		           22.02
24	Jerry West		           21.91
25	Scottie Pippen		       21.83
26	Dirk Nowitzki		        21.81
27	Bob Lanier		           21.74
28	Patrick Ewing		        21.70
29	Walt Frazier		         21.37
30	Dave Cowens		          21.30
31	Ben Wallace		          21.28
32	Dikembe Mutombo		      21.18
33	Oscar Roberston		      21.18
34	Elvin Hayes		          21.08
35	Shawn Marion		         20.98
36	Jerry Lucas		          20.93
37	Alonzo Mourning		      20.91
38	Gary Payton		          20.79
39	Reggie Miller		        20.72
40	Chris Mullin		         20.48
41	Chris Webber		         20.44
42	Elgin Baylor		         20.36
43	Dominique Wilkins		    20.27
44	Bobby Jones		          20.21
45	Nate Thurmond		        20.14
46	Tracy McGrady		        20.11
47	Walt Bellamy		        20.11
48	Ray Allen		            19.91
49	Bob Cousy		            19.89
50	Rick Barry		           19.86

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:54 pm
by Mike G
What does it mean?
I see we've lost Dantley, Moncrief, Isiah, and Iverson.
Replaced by Cousy, Payton, Miller, and Allen.

Other than those, the biggest beneficiaries of this adjustment are Kareem and Mailman; then Kidd and Moses; then Garnett, Hayes, Stockton, Ewing, Pippen.
Getting beat down (relatively) by this : Wade, Dwight, Cowens, LeBron, Bird

The list now looks a lot more like mine!
I like these guys more: Baylor, Shaq, Dirk, Oscar, West, Barry, Mailman, Pippen, Ewing
Your list favors these: Gilmore, Mullin, Wallace, Mutombo, B Jones, Thurmond, Dwight, J Lucas, Marion, Mourning : a lot of defender/rebounders -- plus Chris Mullin.

Re: My list of top 50 Greatest NBA players of all-time

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:14 pm
by D-rell
How is this determined?
Here's are article that served as my basis for LQ adjustments, I tweaked it some

http://arturogalletti.wordpress.com/201 ... n-the-nba/

I estimated pre-1978 once I adjusted all the player stats
I made a further adjustment to translate all careers into 1990-on, I felt that the 90s was a fairly balanced time period to perform the comparisons.

Also, this is a linear weight breakdown of Alternate Win Score and is effectiveness.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/art ... cleid=1985

I found it to undervalue Big Men compared to VORP(value over replacement player), so I merged them with Defensive ratings.. I can further explain when I get some time