Can someone explain J.R. Smith as 6MOY?

[EvanZ]

From what I gather around the interwebz, this seems to be a foregone conclusion now. 51.5% TS on 26% USG. Doesn't really play defense as far as I know. This is what 6MOY is?

[xkonk]

At least one person thinks his defense is better this year (although that could still mean atrocious): http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/912 ... ba-players

[Mike G]

According to Win Shares, he's 4th or 5th among players with fewer than half starts.
http://bkref.com/tiny/c18wc

The first tier, with 6.5-6.6 WS is Amir Johnson, Kevin Martin, and Ryan Anderson
JR is in the next level, 5.6-5.8 WS, with Landry, Jimmy Butler, and Matt Barnes.

Smith has the lowest WS/48 of the top 11. He just plays a lot of minutes (33.5)

Only two other players have (since 1982 at least) averaged as many points (17.6) without starting a single game: Jamal Crawford (18.0, Atl) in 2010, and Ricky Pierce (23.0, Mil) in 1990 (for 59 G)

[Mike G]

I guess I am on board with JR, too. Players who have started less than half their games, equivalent wins projected to the full season:

Code: Select all

e82    per36 rates  tm   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk   e484
7.4   Smith,J.R.    NYK   33  .511   19.7   5.8   3.3   1.3   1.7   .4   1.30
6.6   Anderson,Ryan NOH   31  .560   20.0   8.2   1.3    .6   1.4   .4   1.27
5.9   Johnson,Amir  Tor   28  .583   13.6  10.3   1.8   1.3   1.8  1.7   1.25
5.9   Robinson,Nate Chi   25  .534   20.7   3.3   6.1   1.6   2.4   .1   1.40
5.5   Hawes,Spencer Phl   27  .509   15.3   9.8   2.5    .3   2.1  1.8   1.19

5.3   Jack,Jarrett  GSW   30  .536   16.5   3.6   6.4    .9   2.4   .1   1.09
5.2  Blatche,Andray Brk   19  .541   20.6  10.3   2.1   1.9   2.7  1.4   1.63
5.1   Ginobili,Manu SAS   23  .551   19.9   5.2   7.1   2.0   3.2   .3   1.60
5.0   Carter,Vince  Dal   26  .565   18.9   5.3   2.8   1.3   1.9   .7   1.18
5.0   Miller,Andre  Den   26  .549   13.7   4.2   8.1   1.2   2.9   .2   1.12

Those who are well above Smith's per-minute eWins are WAY down there in minutes.
Nobody has ever played 33.4 mpg without starting a single game. Next highest (since 1982) is Jamal Crawford in 2010, at 31.1

[wilq]

Can someone explain J.R. Smith as 6MOY?
From what I gather around the interwebz, this seems to be a foregone conclusion now

Isn't this the usual reason? http://bkref.com/tiny/DFz5A
To be fair JR had a good season from the bench but to me his starter-caliber minutes should disqualify him from the reward as well as scrubs started in front of him for a couple of minutes just for the sake of it.

[Mike G]

JR Smith has always come off the bench. Since his rookie season anyway.

[PD123]

Doesn't really play defense as far as I know. This is what 6MOY is?

Hasn't this been what the award has more or less been for at least the past decade? Leandro Barbosa, Jason Terry, Mike Miller, Ben Gordon, Jordan Crawford, all of them bench players whose sole job was to score (and I don't really recall any of them playing all that much defense). Harden and Ginobili were starters masquerading as bench players, but they too were high-usage scorers--albeit more talented and more efficient.

[Mike G]

Here are the averages (per game) of 6MOY winners for the whole 30 years of its existence, and for just the last 10.

Code: Select all

6moy     Min    Pts   Reb   Ast   Stl   Blk   FG%    3P%    FT%   WS   WS/48
30 yr   29.2   15.6   5.3   2.8   1.0   .5   .497   .286   .794   7.6   .165
10 yr   30.5   16.5   4.3   3.0   1.0   .3   .475   .395   .822   7.9   .166

Heavy on scoring, not so much rebounding; especially of late.

[Mike G]

According to Win Shares, he's 4th or 5th among players with fewer than half starts.
http://bkref.com/tiny/c18wc

The first tier, with 6.5-6.6 WS is Amir Johnson, Kevin Martin, and Ryan Anderson
JR is in the next level, 5.6-5.8 WS, with Landry, Jimmy Butler, and Matt Barnes.

Smith has the lowest WS/48 of the top 11. He just plays a lot of minutes (33.5)

Only two other players have (since 1982 at least) averaged as many points (17.6) without starting a single game: Jamal Crawford (18.0, Atl) in 2010, and Ricky Pierce (23.0, Mil) in 1990 (for 59 G)

Since this was posted, JR Smith won the 6th Man Award. He ended up at 18.1 ppg.
His 6.7 WS was 3rd, after Butler and Martin (7.0 each). Amir dropped off, apparently from too many starts. Anderson is 4th.

Nate Robinson is 8th on the list. Playing for the same team as Jimmy Butler, would he be the 7th Man winner, if there were such a thing?
They were the only 2 Bulls to play 82 games.

[mtamada]

7th Man of the Year. I like it. One of the strengths of the 1979 champion Sonics was they not only had Instant Offense Fred Brown on their bench (starter quality, indeed he'd been an all-star previously), but they also had an old but still effective Paul Silas.

The late 1980s Pistons had ... well they didn't so much have a 7th man as a bunch of 7th-9th men, because after Microwave Vinnie Johnson they had an army of good subs at forward: Rodman, Salley, James Edwards, and Mark Aguirre all at various times came off the bench (though some of them also were starters at various times).

The 1986 Celtics had Bill Walton as their 6th Man, but Scott Wedman and Jerry Sichting also were useful subs ... maybe one of them was the 8th Man of the Year.

Other potential 7th men: Showtime Lakers with McAdoo and Michael Cooper. Lots of other possibilities but those are the ones who occur to me off the top of my head.

[EvanZ]

Jack and Landry were like 6A and 6B this season for GSW.