Put me in charge of the offense and they would score seven thousand points per nanosecond. Below is how the offense would be run by the epitome of a genius like me.
After a Defensive Rebound:
1. Get the ball to Lebron
2. Kyrie run to the left corner, Love to the left wing, JR. Smith to the right corner, Mozgov to the paint but too slow to get there for now.
3. Lebron dribble down the middle of the court and, without changing speed, attempt one blow by drive preferably to the left but maybe to the right.
4A. Lebron drive to the left and finish.
4B. Lebron drive to the left, kick for a wide open three to Kyrie in left corner.
4C. Lebron drive to the left, kick to Kyrie who subsequently kicks for wide open three to Love on left wing.
4D. Lebron gets stopped from driving left, activates side pick and roll with Kyrie.
4E. Lebron drives right, kick for wide open three to JR. Smith.
4F. Lebron gets stopped from driving right, activates side pick and roll with JR. Smith.
After Inbounding:
1. Give the ball to Kyrie.
2. Love to the left corner, Lebron to the right wing, JR. Smith to the right corner, Mozgov to the leftward paint area.
3. Kyrie dribble down the middle of the court, attempt one blow by drive.
If Kyrie drives to the left, Mozgov slips rightward for a potential alley hoop, and Lebron cuts to the left wing. If Kyrie drives to the right, Mozgov stays put for the potential alley hoop, and Lebron cuts to the left wing.
4A. Kyrie drives left and finishes
4B. Kyrie drives left and alley hoops to Mozgov
4C. Kyrie drives left and kicks for wide open three to Love in left corner
4D. Kyrie gets stopped from driving left, reverses to top of key and tries again.
4E. Kyrie drives to the right and finishes
4F. Kyrie drives to the right and alley hoops to Mozgov
4G. Kyrie drives to the right, kicks for wide open three to Smith in right corner.
4H. Kyrie gets stopped from driving right, hands off to Lebron who is cutting behind him.
The Cavaliers are fools. When is an NBA team going to have the discipline to try what works every single time and try to completely abstain from doing stupid things? Right now they are doing two things that are completely stupid:
1. Posting up Kevin Love
2. Lebron dribbling out the shot clock in the half court while making zero progress in terms of breaking down the defense.
Kyrie Irving should be the primary player initiating all of the Cavalier offense in the half court. He is one of the best ball handlers in the history of the NBA and has absolutely elite quickness. He can blow past his defender from the top of the key at a tremendous rate. He should have the ball pretty much as much as Iverson did in his prime, but unlike Iverson, make smart decisions with the ball all game long. Lebron is not nearly as good at Kyrie breaking down the defense in the half court, and turns the ball over entirely too often. Lebron playing as a cutter off of Kyrie's drives will score at a tremendous rate and efficiency. When Kyrie is on the bench, then Lebron should play the same role Kyrie plays as the primary ball handler. This will maximize the efficiency of the Cavalier offense in the half court. After a defense rebound, when the defense of the opposing team is not set, this is when Lebron needs to dribble full speed down the middle of the court and attempt one blow by drive of his defender. Lebron does not have particularly amazing acceleration, but when he is already on the move he has great top speed, great leaping ability, great finishing ability, great strength, etc, and defenses that are not set after the Cavs get a defensive rebound are extremely vulnerable to a full court drive by Lebron.
The Cavaliers are Fools
The Cavaliers are Fools
Last edited by Kathoro on Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
I believe you're right. For the 284 minutes this lineup has been on the floor together -- about 10 mpg since they've all been together -- they'd be OK with this strategy. The rest of the time, it has to be something else.
I haven't seen them much, but last weekend in the OT loss to Houston, Irving didn't play. And Mozgov didn't play in the 2nd half, 18 minutes total. What's the correlation there?
[Cavs were -13 in TM's 18 min.]
Cavs are 1-4 when Kyrie doesn't play, 2-9 when LeBron is out. Lost both games when both were out (Ind, Phl).
So they've won 36 of 50 games when they're both playing. That's 72%, equivalent to 59-23 for the year.
And with their current stash of players, they're 20-6 -- equiv. to 63 wins on the year, same as Atl and GS are projecting to.
I haven't seen them much, but last weekend in the OT loss to Houston, Irving didn't play. And Mozgov didn't play in the 2nd half, 18 minutes total. What's the correlation there?
[Cavs were -13 in TM's 18 min.]
Cavs are 1-4 when Kyrie doesn't play, 2-9 when LeBron is out. Lost both games when both were out (Ind, Phl).
So they've won 36 of 50 games when they're both playing. That's 72%, equivalent to 59-23 for the year.
And with their current stash of players, they're 20-6 -- equiv. to 63 wins on the year, same as Atl and GS are projecting to.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
It will be interesting to see how Lebron ages. I think this torrid rate of turnovers may have something to do with his athleticism diminishing to some extent. I think as his acceleration wanes his rate of making errant passes upon finishing drive attempts that get stymied will increase. Although I have been a big fan of Lebron for his entire career, the one thing that has bothered me for quite a while is his tendency to dribble out most of the shot clock making zero progress in terms of breaking down the defense. This effect is not something I have any numbers on, but just from watching him play for as long as I have, the effect just seems like it has to be verifiable. As his acceleration wanes I think this strategy will hurt his team at an increasing rate.
The most effective way to use Lebron is as a secondary or tertiary option catching the ball from a penetrating guard while moving toward the paint. In these situations he basically becomes a first option because of his great cutting ability, massive catch radius, great leaping ability, great strength, etc. The best way to use Lebron as a first option is as a full court driving machine to start the offense after a defensive rebound when the defense of the opposing team is not set. The other way to use Lebron as a first option may be to post him up, have him try to draw two defenders, and have him kick the ball out to a shooter. He is still a viable ball handler in the pick in roll, but when Kyrie is out there it is foolish to allow Lebron to be the primary ball handler.
I think it is basically pathetic that an organization with these players can't get Kyrie to average double digit assists. If Kyrie was properly coached and utilized he would be the best point guard in the NBA with absolute ease.
The most effective way to use Lebron is as a secondary or tertiary option catching the ball from a penetrating guard while moving toward the paint. In these situations he basically becomes a first option because of his great cutting ability, massive catch radius, great leaping ability, great strength, etc. The best way to use Lebron as a first option is as a full court driving machine to start the offense after a defensive rebound when the defense of the opposing team is not set. The other way to use Lebron as a first option may be to post him up, have him try to draw two defenders, and have him kick the ball out to a shooter. He is still a viable ball handler in the pick in roll, but when Kyrie is out there it is foolish to allow Lebron to be the primary ball handler.
I think it is basically pathetic that an organization with these players can't get Kyrie to average double digit assists. If Kyrie was properly coached and utilized he would be the best point guard in the NBA with absolute ease.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
Perhaps the Cavs could be better on offense, though 3rd best offensive efficiency isn't bad, relatively. Their 19th ranked defense is more likely to cut short their playoff advancement, imo.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
Kevin Love is #2 in the NBA in PPP during postup situations
http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-u ... eviation*E*
http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-u ... eviation*E*
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
That Kevin Love stat may be true, but is also misleading.
A properly run offense featuring Kyrie as a blow-by driver from the top of the key, proper spacing, and Kyrie making correct decisions in the paint would operate at a much higher efficiency ceiling than an offense featuring Kevin Love post ups. Regardless of what you want to take from the data, Kyrie isolations have resulted in much more efficiency for the Cavs at 1.11 per play than Love post ups at 0.99 per play. And I hadn't even looked at that statistic before I devised the above offense that features a heavy dose of Kyrie isolations with proper spacing around him. In addition, the Kyrie isolations that have been run thus far have most likely not been run the way my offense would be designed. My offense, if coached and operated properly, would hum at a preposterously high efficiency with this roster.
An additional problem with Kevin Love post ups is that he must first spend time fighting for post position and a proper entry pass must be made, which will result in precious time clicking off the clock and an entry pass potentially stolen. Having Kyrie handle the ball up the court and initiate the offense eliminates an unnecessary pass prior to the initiation of the offense and avoids putting the Cavaliers in a less dangerous offensive formation. My offense would combine simplicity and complexity absolutely beautifully. The offense would be extremely effective for a plethora reasons:
1. Kyrie can blow by anyone in the history of the NBA from the top of the key
2. If the defender backs off of Kyrie to avoid being blown-by, Kyrie can shoot threes off the dribble extremely well (forgot to include this as an option in the offense).
3. The offense is extremely easy to operate because it is extremely repetitive
4. Despite being extremely repetitive, the offense features so many easy reads that compliment each other perfectly, thus basically eliminating any advantage the defense would gain by facing a repetitive offense.
5. The offense maximizes effective passes while minimizing ineffective passes, thus maximizing assists and minimizing turnovers.
6. The offense is extremely easy to initiate because it begins with the point guard who can receive the inbounds pass and handle the ball up the court.
7. The offense is initiated extremely early in the shot clock, thus minimizing the waste of precious seconds on the shot clock.
It is basically preposterous that I am not working for the Cavaliers. I am literally handing them a championship with this topic. There is no doubt that the Cavalier offense is great by NBA standards, but they are underachieving based on the talent. They should be first by a landslide.
A properly run offense featuring Kyrie as a blow-by driver from the top of the key, proper spacing, and Kyrie making correct decisions in the paint would operate at a much higher efficiency ceiling than an offense featuring Kevin Love post ups. Regardless of what you want to take from the data, Kyrie isolations have resulted in much more efficiency for the Cavs at 1.11 per play than Love post ups at 0.99 per play. And I hadn't even looked at that statistic before I devised the above offense that features a heavy dose of Kyrie isolations with proper spacing around him. In addition, the Kyrie isolations that have been run thus far have most likely not been run the way my offense would be designed. My offense, if coached and operated properly, would hum at a preposterously high efficiency with this roster.
An additional problem with Kevin Love post ups is that he must first spend time fighting for post position and a proper entry pass must be made, which will result in precious time clicking off the clock and an entry pass potentially stolen. Having Kyrie handle the ball up the court and initiate the offense eliminates an unnecessary pass prior to the initiation of the offense and avoids putting the Cavaliers in a less dangerous offensive formation. My offense would combine simplicity and complexity absolutely beautifully. The offense would be extremely effective for a plethora reasons:
1. Kyrie can blow by anyone in the history of the NBA from the top of the key
2. If the defender backs off of Kyrie to avoid being blown-by, Kyrie can shoot threes off the dribble extremely well (forgot to include this as an option in the offense).
3. The offense is extremely easy to operate because it is extremely repetitive
4. Despite being extremely repetitive, the offense features so many easy reads that compliment each other perfectly, thus basically eliminating any advantage the defense would gain by facing a repetitive offense.
5. The offense maximizes effective passes while minimizing ineffective passes, thus maximizing assists and minimizing turnovers.
6. The offense is extremely easy to initiate because it begins with the point guard who can receive the inbounds pass and handle the ball up the court.
7. The offense is initiated extremely early in the shot clock, thus minimizing the waste of precious seconds on the shot clock.
It is basically preposterous that I am not working for the Cavaliers. I am literally handing them a championship with this topic. There is no doubt that the Cavalier offense is great by NBA standards, but they are underachieving based on the talent. They should be first by a landslide.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
There was one play in overtime in that Cavs-Spurs game last night that pretty much summed some of my arguments up.
James spent a huge portion of the shot clock making zero progress breaking down the defense while foolishly trying to drive past Leonard. Near the end of the shot clock, James passed to Irving, who immediately blew past his defender and drew a foul.
Although Irving erupted for 57 points against the Spurs, I am disappointed in his lack of assists. Irving was making some difficult shots in the paint, shots that he wouldn't have to take if the Cavaliers spaced the floor properly and coached Irving to make better decisions inside the paint. There is no reason that Irving should not lead the league in assists. If Irving had one shooter in each corner and a center fighting for position for an alley hoop on the drives of Irving, and the Cavaliers coached Irving to pass in the paint each time multiple defenders attempted to close the driving lane of Irving, Irving would operate at a much higher efficiency than the already high efficiency he operates at.
James spent a huge portion of the shot clock making zero progress breaking down the defense while foolishly trying to drive past Leonard. Near the end of the shot clock, James passed to Irving, who immediately blew past his defender and drew a foul.
Although Irving erupted for 57 points against the Spurs, I am disappointed in his lack of assists. Irving was making some difficult shots in the paint, shots that he wouldn't have to take if the Cavaliers spaced the floor properly and coached Irving to make better decisions inside the paint. There is no reason that Irving should not lead the league in assists. If Irving had one shooter in each corner and a center fighting for position for an alley hoop on the drives of Irving, and the Cavaliers coached Irving to pass in the paint each time multiple defenders attempted to close the driving lane of Irving, Irving would operate at a much higher efficiency than the already high efficiency he operates at.
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
Easy for you to say. If you have played, you know that it's very difficult to put up a decent shot if you have left your feet, expecting to make a pass. It's not quite as difficult to go up for a shot and change it to a pass, but it requires full attention at multiple places on the court -- and this is almost an oxymoron.
If you've seen highlights of "incredible court awareness", in which a player appears to be completely intent on one or the other (shot or pass) only to successfully change in mid course, chances are good that you were deceived -- and the defense was deceived -- and it was planned from the outset.
Non-Irving Cavs hit 24/59 shots (.407), so it may be that he'd have more assist had they hit at their normal rates. To be blunt, the Cavs won because he shot more and passed less.
Actually, his Ast% for the game (26.8) was higher than his normal for the year (24.5)
This will likely be known as the best game in Kyrie Irving's whole career. Trying to improve on it will be frustrating. The actual practitioners of the game will only use it to improve certain plays.
The Irving Game is the highest rated game this season, by GameScore.
In the last 4.8 seasons, it's the 3rd highest GmSc, after 60-point games by Carmelo and LeBron.
http://bkref.com/tiny/6lRpL
If you've seen highlights of "incredible court awareness", in which a player appears to be completely intent on one or the other (shot or pass) only to successfully change in mid course, chances are good that you were deceived -- and the defense was deceived -- and it was planned from the outset.
Non-Irving Cavs hit 24/59 shots (.407), so it may be that he'd have more assist had they hit at their normal rates. To be blunt, the Cavs won because he shot more and passed less.
Actually, his Ast% for the game (26.8) was higher than his normal for the year (24.5)
This will likely be known as the best game in Kyrie Irving's whole career. Trying to improve on it will be frustrating. The actual practitioners of the game will only use it to improve certain plays.
The Irving Game is the highest rated game this season, by GameScore.
In the last 4.8 seasons, it's the 3rd highest GmSc, after 60-point games by Carmelo and LeBron.
http://bkref.com/tiny/6lRpL
Re: The Cavaliers are Fools
I didn't say anything about Kyrie leaving his feet and changing from a shot to a pass or a pass to a shot. I think you should go back and read the previous message again. I mentioned situations where multiple defenders attempt to close the driving lane of Irving, not specifically when Kyrie is already in the air. It should actually be quite simple for Kyrie to see a help defender attempting to close the driving lane of Irving while Irving is in the process of blazing toward the rim. The key is for him to read help defenders before leaving his feet.
The simple fact is that Kyrie Irving is an underutilized, improperly utilized, and poorly coached basketball God. His unprecedented combination of ball-handling skills, shooting ability, acceleration, speed, and finishing ability at the rim should lead him to be the best point guard in the league by a wide margin. I am not saying he is perfect, but his imperfections should be easy to coach into nonexistence. His imperfections are as follows:
1. He takes too many difficult jumpers off the dribble.
2. He forces up too many difficult shots in the paint.
Kyrie should understand the following:
1. There is no entity in the history of the universe that can stay in front of Kyrie Irving after beginning close to Kyrie Irving, thus Kyrie Irving should blaze to the paint each time a man-to-man defense is attempting to guard him close.
2. If a defender plays Kyrie Irving with a cushion, Kyrie Irving is one of the best three point shooters off the dribble in the history of basketball, thus Kyrie Irving should shoot an open three each time a man-to-man defense is playing him with a cushion.
3. Kyrie Irving can get an open midrange jumper off the dribble for himself at any time in the shot clock, so Kyrie Irving should only choose this option at the end of the shot clock.
4. Although Kyrie Irving is a terrific finisher in the paint, he currently trusts himself to finish over sixteen centers at once in the paint. If Kyrie Irving passed to a shooter or center each time help defenders attempted to close the driving lane of Kyrie Irving, Kyrie Irving would lead the league in assists and shoot far over 50% from the field.
Also, I agree that the Cavaliers might have beaten the Spurs last night because Irving passed less and shot more. However, the optimum long-term strategy would be to convert Irving's crazy attempts in the paint into passes to open shooters or centers. Yes, they might have lost to the Spurs with that strategy, but over the long term that strategy will be much more successful.
The simple fact is that Kyrie Irving is an underutilized, improperly utilized, and poorly coached basketball God. His unprecedented combination of ball-handling skills, shooting ability, acceleration, speed, and finishing ability at the rim should lead him to be the best point guard in the league by a wide margin. I am not saying he is perfect, but his imperfections should be easy to coach into nonexistence. His imperfections are as follows:
1. He takes too many difficult jumpers off the dribble.
2. He forces up too many difficult shots in the paint.
Kyrie should understand the following:
1. There is no entity in the history of the universe that can stay in front of Kyrie Irving after beginning close to Kyrie Irving, thus Kyrie Irving should blaze to the paint each time a man-to-man defense is attempting to guard him close.
2. If a defender plays Kyrie Irving with a cushion, Kyrie Irving is one of the best three point shooters off the dribble in the history of basketball, thus Kyrie Irving should shoot an open three each time a man-to-man defense is playing him with a cushion.
3. Kyrie Irving can get an open midrange jumper off the dribble for himself at any time in the shot clock, so Kyrie Irving should only choose this option at the end of the shot clock.
4. Although Kyrie Irving is a terrific finisher in the paint, he currently trusts himself to finish over sixteen centers at once in the paint. If Kyrie Irving passed to a shooter or center each time help defenders attempted to close the driving lane of Kyrie Irving, Kyrie Irving would lead the league in assists and shoot far over 50% from the field.
Also, I agree that the Cavaliers might have beaten the Spurs last night because Irving passed less and shot more. However, the optimum long-term strategy would be to convert Irving's crazy attempts in the paint into passes to open shooters or centers. Yes, they might have lost to the Spurs with that strategy, but over the long term that strategy will be much more successful.