European and global league possibilities

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Crow
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Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

Can Euroleague TV contracts be broken? Is there an opt-out? What penalties for non-delivery or weakened delivery?


Until I hear / see more, I consider the NBA plan shockingly scant and possibly a mirage.

A cooperative effort in Spain or Spain & France seems more plausible than anything broader / grander, at least at start.

If there was a huge commercial opportunity just sitting there to be birthed, you'd think the NBA would be in a hurry and have excited partners, including, especially including media partner(s).


I will probably add to this further if there are meaningful agreements and actions, but maybe not if it is more of same dithering and chatting and dreaming.
Crow
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

Why would a European media company want to pay 5-10 times as much for broadcast rights as they could or do now, without proof of audience expansion? Is the NBA label enough to expand audience? I'd think it would have to be quality of the players based to a large degree.


NBA generally does not acknowledge other basketball as competition but the main competition is the NCAA domestically and with the wave of young Europeans coming over, it is the European competition too.

Would an NBA Europe pay equal or better than the NCAA? Immediately and long-term? We may find out. May.
Crow
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

Though there continues to be mention of possibly someday having european teams in NBA, NBA Europe is currently discussed as entirely separate or maybe a few come over for a cup tournament someday. A variation on that would be to have NBA Europe champ... or finalists in playoffs, perhaps as a 5 seed. All sich home games in U.S., perhaps New York.
Crow
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Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

Tony Parker's ASVEL barely avoids bankruptcy and / or relegation.

Like others in Euroleague needs the NBA. Apparently did not figure it out himself, but he is a key player in negotiations?

A $5 million team payroll was too much to make work? What kind of market is Paris? Or Berlin or London and others struggling to get by?
Crow
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Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

Try to start or run a hyped up european league in 2028 after everybody spends on and wallows in the broad Olympics? I don't know if that is such a good idea. Maybe if you get it all lined up in advance.

A lot comes down to who will be playing in the league and where and how that is different or not different from now. The future Olympians are largely going to be the same as before.

Will a "new" league acquire more and higher quality players from United States? Americans, better Europeans in NBA? Will the shift in nationality, ethnicity, age and quality be minor or major? Changes could be unguided and maybe not well received.

Will the mix of coaches. or the nature of coaching change?


I don't know if a new league should be overlayed atop domestic leagues. The talk is that they would continue as is, but I don't know if that really makes sense if the aim is change & elevation of commercial product. They are a competing product, perhaps pulling down on value.

Not sure ULEB and members have any real power in the overall equation but they are out there.
Crow
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

LeBron and Maverick Carter meeting with Jokic's agent made the news, though there was no accompanying actual news of the international touring league.

Start in fall 2026? Hard to believe unless things actually start happening: TV deal, visible league office hires, arena procurements, etc.

It could hypothetically decimate Euroleague and NBA Europe before it even starts and possibly WNBA, but neither acknowledge the threat. I acknowledge the potential threat but just barely until a lot more is done to make it real.

LeBron is probably the make or break piece. NBA delaying expansion and trying to crack open the opportunity for equity could be enough to make him try it; but I'd assume if he goes to war against NBA, he isn't getting in later. It is quite the high stakes shadow dance or real game.

The boat meeting could have been more than an unspoken tease but it wasn't. There are no new stories on Maverick Carter that reveal actual commitment and achievement.


Fall 2026 probably would be the right time to take on / destroy WNBA... if there really is any support base for a global tour of women's basketball. I'd assume an international tour would not offer equity without a multi-year commitment and that stars would be reluctant to give such without it being rock solid for getting paid and getting equity that actually means something.


Potentially college basketball players could be targeted on men's side, hurting NBA draft and college basketball going forward. Restricted free agents could be a main vein for recruitment as well.

If they are serious and go for it.

If they do, they are going up against a rival with big money locked down, experience and image. Starting is easier than surviving and winning. Would a tour work the first time around? What about the 3rd, 5th or 10th? Pretty skeptical. But maybe. Entertainment is a potentially lucrative play with many possible tie ins. For a very good or exceptional business team. Better than most or all other upstart league attempts. LIV Golf appears a huge failure to my brief awareness.

Jokic's agent is an obvious potential ally for fiĺling the league but he is also a potential adversary and a potential competitor / irritant to other participants, owners and agents.

There hasn't been a hint of whether this international touring league would tour in U.S. It is a big question. Would people here play attention, pay money for it? How many name or big name players would it take? A handful is probably not enough. A couple dozen? 6 teams would team 40 plus players, not all stars. How much salary & equity are they willing to contract ahead of time? I am talking about the investors behind the managers.


The direct and indirect ties to gambling will likely be major parts of the story.

How many stops, how many games per stop and per player? Get it right, out of the gate? 8-12 stops? 2-3-4 games per player?

What efforts will be made to get fans to care about teams or results? Care as much or more than the alternatives immediately and long-term?

How long and often would LeBron play? Which other stars, old or not old, would join / how soon and for how long? How good would the product be as basketball, as entertainment, as destination entertainment? As high-end product? Is this league going for the common fan, the international jetset or both? I assume they want both but which is the real priority?

It is hard to imagine 6 men's teams and 6 women's teams playing multiple games in a 2 week stop without multiple arenas and saturation schedules. Hard to imagine more than a fraction televised on anything but streaming.



Now see suggestion that it would be 8 stops. Probably 2 week stop, 1 week off. Asia, Middle East for sure. Europe, North America and elsewhere perhaps rotating.
Crow
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Re: European possibilities

Post by Crow »

If the international tour league is created and if $5 billion is raised and if that capitalization is equivalent to asset value and if that asset value is based on an equivalent asset value to revenue ratio as NBA and if they spend at an equivalent player salary to total revenue ratio as NBA...

if, if, if, if, if...

they might be looking to spend something on the order of $200 million on player salary per season for entire 12 team set. That might mean something like $25+ million per men's team. That probably means few if any male superstars. Probably join for brief runs (1 year or even just selected stops / dates?) mainly for offered equity transfers and not for big salaries.

For this not to be the case, something above would have to shift.

Maybe they offer $7-12 mil / yr to a few stars, $3-4 mil for #2s and #3s and fill out rest of rosters mainly with $1 million guys? If stars get even bigger share then rest of bench might fall to NBA 2 way level. Interest from and in retired NBA players might be an important component.


Could be way different for a reason or reasons but that is my guess as of now based on extremely limited and vague information.

Current NBA players are probably generally not going to be interested in taking 1 year deals and uncertainty of actually getting paid unless equity or endorsements or lifestyle (including length of season and party atmosphere) somehow compensates. College players, domestic and foreign, 1st year after prep and beyond, might be pretty interested, if tour and owners and audience are interested in them.

To spend $200 million on players, the tour probably needs to generate $400+ million in revenue or $50+ million per stop. If a stop is 4 games per team over 2 weeks, that is 12 games for men, 12 for women. Can tour generate $3 million per game from men? Ticket sales, streaming, merchandise, appearance fees, etc.? Yeah maybe. If it is successfully developed.

Easier ways for $5 billion investment to make a profit probably, but do it for glamour, vanity and potential asset value increase based on that "value". Or to the extent that investors benefit from indirect returns from adjacent activity (gambling, hospitality, luxury goods & services, other entertainment, new investments in such, economic & political prestige and legitimacy, etc. possibly including prospects for bribery and other illegal activity) the return may be greater and far more appealing. (Tax implications, including team writeoffs, would be another element of the enterprise.)

If Euroleague, NBA Europe, NBA or even NCAA felt threatened or envious or spiteful toward the tour, they could schedule similar international stops or in some cases block access to some arenas where they or their business partners control arenas. Shunning players who "defect" could be a strategy, an impact, a legal issue.


If you see more than surface news reports on new leagues (or NBA expansion), let me know. I haven't seen much depth elsewhere.
Crow
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Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

Late seeing this item:

The private capital firm that was to buy a share of the Euroleague withdrew the offer a couple of months ago. Disagreement with the Euroleague was blamed without specifics.

There were already complicated. Perhaps this make some agreement with NBA less complicated or more likely. Or it could be a bad sign about ability to decide & change.
Crow
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

I'd guess that no current Euroleague pays $500+ million to join NBA Europe, or certainly not without locked down media money share to more than adequately repay that investmentvin timely manner.

Most new investors will want the same assurance but might take more risk.

Expect any media company that consider buying the rights to NBA Europe coverage to be presented with unsolicited offers from EuroLeague or to go to them for offers to try to gain leverage and reduce what they pay NBA Europe.

Unless NBA Europe goes it alone with self-streaming and only offers self-forecasted revenue projections to its investors.

Silver might have 7+ teams saying they are "interested" in joining NBA Europe but I doubt he has firm commitments in his pocket to pay the proposed fee. If he did, they'd probably be announcing at least half-baked commitments..

More twitter responses:

https://x.com/bballstrategy/status/1952189361531068717
Crow
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

Salary cap and minimum and maximum player salaries in existing and potential leagues are obviously very important to success or failure but completely absent from public statements so far.



Allowing NBA teams to invest in / manage other teams beyond G league would be a different aproach than starting a new league though they could be combined. In the former, only teams that are hands on, get paid. In revenue and perhaps player development. Under the league office developing / selling / running a league, teams probably don't do anything but wait for checks. The latter sounds easy. But is it "better"?


If digital media is important or the biggest by far thing that new leagues would bring / try over existing European products, what is the European experience with digital media to date? What are the lessons? What would actually work better versus desiring / asking for it to work better / larger?

What will NBA office and / or NBA Europe office say or do if NBA Europe attracts players that NBA teams wanted to retain, on their terms? What could / would the response be to players moving to international touring league? Retain of rights to be sure but what about bans from returning, for a period or forever? Would any new rules have to accepted by both NBA union and any new unions?


Will G league survive, survive in similar form & depth? Will any of their concerns receive accommodating responses?
Crow
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Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

Zero new details out about NBA Europe or NBA expansion from September Board of Governors meeting. Nothing solid about either ever. "Solid" requiring formal action.

The rumored / desired fee to join NBA Europe went from a mentioned $500 million to $500 million to $1 billion. NBA can desire what it wants but will likely have to demonstrate a return revenue stream that goes well beyond repaying that entry fee within whatever time horizon the investors are using. All are vague unknowns to the public and very likely to all the parties still.
As mentioned several times before, there have been zero mentions of potential media partners or the development of an in-house vehicle.

Will there be any announcements of actual action before next summer, at the earliest? I doubt it, but time will tell.

There was a major re-do of the org chart that hopefully facilitates action on Europe and / or expansion but no visible actions on these initiatives yet. Marketing, data and global units put firmly under control of business units and the main executives.



Almost 2 months since vague teaser meeting with Jokic's agent and I can't find any news or even no news, recent media coverage of the international touring league beyond that James / Carter talked about it with him in July.
Crow
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Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

IF NBA Europe had the revenue to pay more guys $3-5 million per year, I assume that they would mostly be NBA players getting that. 7th to 9th men wanting more playing time, shots, attention. Players NBA wouldn't want to lose. So do they have to pay more to keep? Commit to longer? Play more? Trade to teams with playing time?

If NBA Europe pays more guys $1-2 million, I still think it main comes from NBA talent pool.

Will there be limits on imports?

How will salary cap be structured?

How will NBA Europe player's association form / act with what balance between Europeans & imports?

Could NBA Eeurope "afford" or go for $8+ million / yr guys anyways?

How free agency is timed and run will affect how goes where. Training camp timing?

Will inter-league trades be allowed between NBA Europe and NBA? Other leagues? Loans? Handling of waivers if that is an element?

How extensive will local league play be initially and down the line? Separate pay scales and expense schedules? Can you sign mainly or exclusively for NBA Europe games?

Centralized TV contracts for local games or everyone is on their own?

TV contracts for NBA Europe in US? Shared revenue or most or all to NBA?

Minimum age? Will young Europeans shift from NCAA to NBA Europe? From other leagues / development programs?

Does G league collapse or become even more also-rans? Harder to get someone half-decent to NBA or short notice for replacements?

Changes to agent representation and behavior? More agents in multiple markets or more agent competition for offering players and getting paid? More control by global agencies or less?

How many years of operation and financial success before teams are ready for new arenas? Do or will european governments participate?

How much will NBA Europe differ to international tournaments? Will they eventually try to fold them in to NBA Europe or change then significantly?

Rules on endorsements / outside compensation?

Middle East owners? How many? How constrained by financial model? Asian owners? Relocation rules? Spilt home schedules?

If there is a competing Euroleague, how will its rules and behavior affect NBA Europe? International touring league? Schedules? Media behavior?

What are the minimum standards for teams? Rules for intervention, suspension, takeover?

Expansion fees? Benefit everyone or just NBA?

Will media partners seek equity? Escape clauses? Various guarantees? Flexible pay for performance contracts?

Assume players will not be allowed equity but the request will arise.

Rules for missing games not approved by team? Suspension and void rules?

Rules about anything made by NBA Europe or NBA? Meaningful team voting power or just advice and appearance of voice? Contracts between league and teams set limits of league power or not? Protocol and penalties for teams who break the rules? One, many or all? Strikes and lockouts?

National and local government rules & interventions?

How much has been figured out? How much lead time to figure out / agree on all this stuff? How much before named participation vs after? Participation fees lump sum, on installment or both?

Playoff structure?

Any draft?

Relegation / promotion terms? In view of franchise fees?

Not designed for individual NBA involvement but strict ban or evolution?

Does a Euripean equivalent to the G league and / or WNBA evolve? Already considered?

FIBA stays involved or is eventually pushed out or marginalized?

Break with Olympics?

How will fans react? What if any influence will they react have? Will fan bases be allow to invest in or control franchises?

Exit terms and fees?

How many owners also owning football clubs? Cooperation and competition / conflicts of interest?

League meddling with play style, officiating, practice, coaching? League steering on signings in general and Marque? League subsidies of certain salaries?

Application of game tracking technology?

Fan behavior rules?


2027, 2028 or later?
Crow
Posts: 10599
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: European and global league possibilities

Post by Crow »

Could international touring league move forward at all without a public or private commitment by LeBron James? I doubt it.

Is he going to give a commitment by Jan, - March? I really doubt it.

Can they scramble together the tour beginning in 2026 if he doesn't commit until May -July? I doubt it.

Can they get prime arena dates for fall 2026 after Jan. to March? I doubt it.

Can they get players signed before August? Probably not.

How much of that reputed $5 billion from investor group is actually transferred into the organization? Token or none? I doubt a major share has moved, based on no visible public actions. How many months more until there is a formal partnership, full investment? Visible operation?

How many NBA players do they need to sell the tour at a desired level? 20? 40? Can't see 10 being enough.

How many other stars do they need? 5 for 1 per team? 11 or more? Who else will jump? How many will get equity offers? How much is that equity going to be worth or seen as worth?

If they have 6 men's teams, they probably need 60+ players. How many will be ex-NBA or draft prospects? How many Europeans? How many Asians?

Can they get major media in year 1? When would that need to lock in? August? March?

What level of revenue would streaming bring?

What level of 1st year expense are they willing to layout, $100 million? $250 million? $500 million? How much are they willing to spend on marketing?

If they are serious about fall 2026, what should be done by now, by end of year?

How much are LeBron and Maverick Carter asking for / getting? $250 mil combined? $500 mil? More? Split between cash and equity?

What are the benchmarks for year 1 success?

Players get 1 year contracts or longer? Stars? Options? Signing bonuses?
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