The NBA All-Defense first and second teams were not created until the 1968-69 season. John Hollanger's recent article on listing the top 25 defenders in NBA history got me wondering, has anyone attempted to create a list now looking back of the best defenders in each of the seasons from 1946-47 to 1967-68 or at best listed the best players in each decade or half-decade? Are there any articles or videos where the best defenders during those eras were discussed?
Obviously, Bill Russell and Wilt chamberlain were the top two defenders, but who else where above average or great defenders during those seasons without All-Defense teams?
Jason
All-Defense Teams
Re: All-Defense Teams
Fwiw, could review defensive winshares on pages like this:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... stats::dws
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... stats::dws
Re: All-Defense Teams
Defense is hard to quantify, so retrospectively looking at 'defensive stats' is unlikely to add much to the opinions of the time.
Is the greater defender one who also does not depress his team offensively? If a player has no appreciable offense, putting him in the game hurts more than a pretty-good defender who is also pretty good on offense.
A great offensive player is putting a lot of energy into that end of the floor and may need to (relatively) rest on D, to create the best contribution to his team. And vise-versa.
A player who is great on both ends is almost certainly doing more than any one-way specialist, no matter their genius on O or on D.
Yet your otherworldly offensive player bedevils the opponent by daring them to put defensive beasts on the floor who have no offensive game. This effectively reduces the opponent's offense. And this is statistically identical to improving your defense.
Is the greater defender one who also does not depress his team offensively? If a player has no appreciable offense, putting him in the game hurts more than a pretty-good defender who is also pretty good on offense.
A great offensive player is putting a lot of energy into that end of the floor and may need to (relatively) rest on D, to create the best contribution to his team. And vise-versa.
A player who is great on both ends is almost certainly doing more than any one-way specialist, no matter their genius on O or on D.
Yet your otherworldly offensive player bedevils the opponent by daring them to put defensive beasts on the floor who have no offensive game. This effectively reduces the opponent's offense. And this is statistically identical to improving your defense.
Re: All-Defense Teams
how about compiling a list of players you think are pre-70s great defenders and see who agrees/disagrees? i'll start:
wilt chamberlain
bill russell
nate thurmond
gus johnson
dave debusschere
satch sanders
mel hutchins
jerry west
al attles
maurice stokes
larry costello
slater martin
bill sharman
vern mikkelsen
wilt chamberlain
bill russell
nate thurmond
gus johnson
dave debusschere
satch sanders
mel hutchins
jerry west
al attles
maurice stokes
larry costello
slater martin
bill sharman
vern mikkelsen
Re: All-Defense Teams
What, no K.C. Jones?
From '59 to '67, he averaged 26 mpg for the best team in the league.
Per36 minutes, he got about 10 pts, 5 reb, and 6 ast -- in an era of ultra-high scoring and rebound totals.
His career PER is 10.4, but his WS/48 is .106. He's in the Hall of Fame as a player, and not due to his offense.
He totals 37.9 def. WS and 0.7 OWS. In playoffs, 4.7 and 0.0
Without Stl and Blk, and unimpressive Reb. rates, his DWS would be the result of the Celtics' defense.
There may be an estimation formula based on team strength, PER, and MPG that translates [minutes without offense] = Defense.
On a bad team, a low-O player may get minutes just because someone has to play. On a good team, you'd have to be good at something.
From '59 to '67, he averaged 26 mpg for the best team in the league.
Per36 minutes, he got about 10 pts, 5 reb, and 6 ast -- in an era of ultra-high scoring and rebound totals.
His career PER is 10.4, but his WS/48 is .106. He's in the Hall of Fame as a player, and not due to his offense.
He totals 37.9 def. WS and 0.7 OWS. In playoffs, 4.7 and 0.0
Without Stl and Blk, and unimpressive Reb. rates, his DWS would be the result of the Celtics' defense.
There may be an estimation formula based on team strength, PER, and MPG that translates [minutes without offense] = Defense.
On a bad team, a low-O player may get minutes just because someone has to play. On a good team, you'd have to be good at something.
Re: All-Defense Teams
By career Defensive Win Shares, Havlicek, Cowens, Dolph Schayes and maybe some others fairly high up at least deserve consideration.
But include, exclude who you want. I don't know or care enough to make a specific honor list from the deep past. I saw some play from before 1968 on tape but not that much.
But include, exclude who you want. I don't know or care enough to make a specific honor list from the deep past. I saw some play from before 1968 on tape but not that much.