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NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:25 pm
by Mike G
Shocker: LeBron leaps to #2
T is a weighted sum of other rates: 30 is a star, 35 is an allstar, 40 a superstar.
po% is the % of player's minutes in playoffs.
p/r is ratio of career T rates, PO/RS. Normal is about .93
Rates are normalized to 100 points and 44 rebounds per team, per game.
Code: Select all
per 36 rates G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Michael Jordan 1251 39 31.2 6.5 5.1 2.3 2.7 .8 44.4 .15 1.06
LeBron James 1186 40 29.1 7.6 6.6 1.6 3.2 .7 43.7 .18 1.00
Kareem AbdJabbar 1797 37 24.7 10.6 3.4 1.0 3.0 2.7 40.2 .13 .95
Wilt Chamberlain 1205 47 23.4 14.7 3.5 1.5 3.6 3.0 43.6 .13 .90
Tim Duncan 1643 35 23.7 12.5 3.4 .8 2.7 2.3 40.9 .17 .96
Shaquille O'Neal 1422 35 27.9 12.2 2.7 .6 3.0 2.4 42.9 .16 .97
Karl Malone 1669 38 27.1 10.9 3.5 1.4 3.0 .8 40.6 .13 .92
Hakeem Olajuwon 1383 36 22.9 11.6 2.6 1.8 3.1 3.2 39.9 .12 1.07
Magic Johnson 1096 37 19.4 7.5 10.4 1.9 3.9 .4 37.9 .18 .98
Kevin Garnett 1605 35 20.9 11.6 4.0 1.4 2.4 1.5 37.9 .09 .95
11-20 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Larry Bird 1061 39 22.8 9.9 5.7 1.7 3.0 .8 38.9 .17 .94
Bill Russell 1128 43 12.6 14.6 3.8 1.5 2.9 4.0 35.6 .16 1.03
Kobe Bryant 1565 37 26.9 5.5 4.6 1.5 3.0 .5 36.3 .15 .96
Julius Erving 1432 37 22.5 7.8 4.0 1.9 3.4 1.7 35.4 .14 .98
Charles Barkley 1196 37 22.8 12.4 3.8 1.6 3.2 .8 38.4 .11 .99
David Robinson 1110 35 23.9 11.6 2.7 1.5 2.6 3.1 41.3 .11 .93
Dirk Nowitzki 1485 36 25.4 8.7 2.6 .9 1.9 .9 36.8 .11 .99
Jerry West 1083 40 24.8 4.2 6.0 2.7 3.3 .9 36.8 .15 1.02
Dwyane Wade 1020 36 26.8 5.4 5.9 1.7 3.4 .9 38.1 .17 .94
Elgin Baylor 977 40 23.5 9.6 3.9 1.6 3.2 1.5 37.3 .14 .98
21-30 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Scottie Pippen 1386 35 17.9 7.3 5.5 2.0 2.9 .9 31.8 .16 1.01
Oscar Robertson 1126 42 21.9 5.3 8.0 2.0 3.4 .7 36.3 .08 .92
Patrick Ewing 1322 35 23.0 11.0 2.0 1.0 3.1 2.6 36.5 .11 .95
John Stockton 1686 32 16.1 3.3 11.8 2.4 3.2 .2 33.6 .12 .95
Bob Pettit 880 39 24.9 11.7 2.8 1.3 3.3 1.8 39.2 .10 .91
Clyde Drexler 1231 35 20.4 6.7 5.5 2.1 2.9 .7 33.6 .13 .97
Moses Malone 1553 34 21.0 13.2 1.3 .9 3.3 1.4 33.9 .08 1.01
Paul Pierce 1481 35 23.6 6.4 3.7 1.4 2.9 .6 33.0 .12 .93
Jason Kidd 1549 36 13.2 6.8 8.9 2.0 3.0 .3 30.4 .11 .97
John Havlicek 1442 37 19.5 5.2 4.7 1.8 2.6 .7 30.0 .13 1.02
31-40 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Chris Paul 842 36 21.4 4.8 9.7 2.4 2.5 .1 38.4 .09 .97
Pau Gasol 1170 36 20.3 10.0 3.4 .5 2.4 1.7 34.1 .10 .94
Dolph Schayes 945 34 21.0 10.1 3.1 1.4 2.9 1.6 34.3 .08 1.02
Elvin Hayes 1399 39 18.5 10.9 1.7 1.0 2.6 2.1 31.6 .08 1.05
Rick Barry 1125 38 22.1 5.5 4.5 2.1 2.8 .5 32.6 .10 1.05
Russell Westbrook 669 35 23.8 6.3 8.2 1.9 4.0 .3 37.6 .13 1.03
Kevin Durant 732 38 28.6 7.2 3.5 1.1 3.1 1.0 38.4 .14 .95
Dwight Howard 969 36 20.8 14.1 1.6 1.0 3.2 2.2 36.0 .10 1.02
Artis Gilmore 1429 36 18.9 11.9 2.3 .6 3.9 2.3 31.5 .07 .98
Bob Cousy 955 36 19.1 4.1 7.8 2.4 3.0 .4 32.6 .12 .94
41-50 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Robert Parish 1793 29 17.5 11.4 1.5 .9 2.5 1.8 30.5 .12 .92
Chris Webber 911 37 20.4 9.9 4.2 1.4 2.8 1.4 35.2 .09 .89
Bob Lanier 1026 34 20.9 10.5 3.3 1.2 3.0 1.7 34.6 .07 .99
Manu Ginobili 1120 27 22.3 5.3 5.3 1.8 2.8 .4 33.2 .19 .93
Tracy McGrady 988 33 23.0 6.6 5.1 1.4 2.5 1.0 35.5 .05 1.05
Isiah Thomas 1090 36 18.4 3.7 8.8 2.0 3.8 .3 30.7 .11 1.10
Allen Iverson 985 41 25.1 3.5 5.6 2.0 3.2 .2 34.0 .08 1.03
George Mikan 284 35 26.6 13.1 2.9 1.3 3.6 2.0 42.1 .15 1.05
Tony Parker 1293 33 21.4 3.5 6.8 1.0 2.8 .1 30.9 .18 .90
Vince Carter 1356 33 22.6 5.6 3.9 1.2 2.2 .7 32.2 .06 .98
51-60 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Gary Payton 1488 35 17.5 4.4 7.0 1.9 2.4 .2 30.2 .10 .84
George McGinnis 946 34 19.5 10.5 3.8 2.0 4.5 .5 30.9 .12 .96
Dave Cowens 855 39 16.1 11.9 3.5 1.1 2.2 .9 31.5 .11 1.05
Dan Issel 1351 34 20.7 8.5 2.2 1.1 2.3 .6 30.6 .10 .95
Shawn Kemp 1139 28 19.5 11.5 2.1 1.4 3.3 1.6 32.0 .09 1.04
Carmelo Anthony 968 37 25.9 7.0 3.0 1.1 2.9 .5 34.2 .07 .94
Walt Frazier 915 38 19.0 5.3 6.0 1.9 2.5 .2 31.1 .11 1.03
Kevin McHale 1140 31 20.8 8.6 1.8 .4 2.2 2.0 31.3 .16 .99
Dominiq. Wilkins 1129 36 24.7 7.0 2.5 1.3 2.6 .6 33.6 .05 .92
Chauncey Billups 1201 32 20.1 3.6 6.3 1.1 2.3 .2 30.0 .14 1.03
61-70 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Reggie Miller 1533 35 22.7 3.4 3.1 1.1 1.9 .2 29.1 .10 1.05
Steve Nash 1332 32 18.4 3.5 9.2 .8 3.3 .1 30.0 .10 .98
Bob McAdoo 946 33 22.5 9.9 2.3 1.1 3.3 1.7 33.7 .09 .91
George Gervin 1142 34 24.3 5.5 2.6 1.3 3.2 1.1 31.2 .08 1.01
Carlos Boozer 944 32 20.7 12.3 2.5 1.0 2.5 .4 33.8 .09 .88
Stephen Curry 553 35 25.2 4.5 6.8 1.8 3.4 .2 36.1 .11 1.03
Alonzo Mourning 933 31 22.7 10.6 1.4 .6 3.1 3.3 35.3 .09 .91
Billy Cunningham 824 35 19.9 9.0 4.2 1.6 3.9 1.4 32.2 .06 .97
Shawn Marion 1271 35 16.7 9.4 2.0 1.6 1.6 1.1 29.9 .08 .88
James Worthy 1069 33 19.3 5.8 3.1 1.3 2.2 .7 28.3 .15 1.05
71-80 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Rasheed Wallace 1264 33 17.7 8.1 2.1 1.1 1.7 1.5 29.0 .14 .93
Jack Sikma 1209 33 16.1 10.7 3.2 1.1 2.5 1.0 29.5 .09 .86
Terry Cummings 1285 29 19.3 9.3 2.2 1.3 2.3 .7 30.1 .08 .99
Alex English 1261 32 21.3 5.9 3.6 1.0 2.7 .8 29.8 .06 1.01
Larry Nance 988 34 18.3 9.0 2.7 1.0 2.0 2.4 32.2 .07 .92
Vlade Divac 1255 30 14.3 9.9 3.6 1.3 2.6 1.7 28.7 .10 .94
Neil Johnston 536 35 23.8 10.2 2.8 1.3 3.1 1.6 36.4 .04 .90
Kevin Johnson 840 34 19.0 3.6 9.0 1.5 3.3 .3 31.7 .13 .95
Amar'e Stoudemire 924 31 24.4 9.4 1.4 .9 2.8 1.5 34.1 .08 .96
Chris Bosh 981 36 21.1 9.2 2.0 .8 2.0 1.1 32.1 .09 .87
81-90 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Jerry Lucas 901 38 15.5 11.9 3.1 1.4 2.6 1.8 31.6 .07 .87
Walt Bellamy 1088 38 18.4 11.0 2.3 .8 2.5 .7 30.0 .05 .95
Lamar Odom 1069 33 15.2 9.6 3.9 .9 2.5 1.0 28.3 .10 .98
Ray Allen 1471 36 21.5 4.5 3.4 1.1 2.1 .2 28.8 .06 .87
Elton Brand 1095 33 19.0 10.1 2.3 1.0 2.2 2.0 32.5 .03 .90
Cliff Hagan 931 29 20.2 5.7 3.7 1.5 2.6 .8 29.5 .11 1.07
Grant Hill 1065 34 19.4 7.2 4.6 1.3 2.6 .6 31.0 .03 .92
Alvan Adams 1066 28 16.6 8.9 4.8 1.6 3.4 1.0 29.8 .08 .95
Rajon Rondo 739 34 13.1 5.8 9.3 2.0 3.2 .1 29.1 .14 1.10
Horace Grant 1275 34 12.7 9.5 2.4 1.1 1.2 1.1 26.1 .14 .99
91-100 G mpg Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Baron Davis 885 34 17.5 4.3 7.3 2.0 3.0 .5 30.0 .06 1.15
Wes Unseld 1103 37 10.4 12.5 3.8 1.1 1.9 .7 27.0 .12 .96
Zach Randolph 1047 32 20.1 11.6 2.0 .9 2.4 .3 31.8 .07 .89
Josh Smith 964 32 16.6 8.9 3.3 1.3 2.8 2.1 30.2 .07 .99
Blake Griffin 458 35 23.6 10.3 4.3 1.0 2.6 .6 37.5 .11 .91
Adrian Dantley 1025 36 24.7 5.9 2.8 1.0 3.0 .2 31.0 .07 .94
Sam Cassell 1129 30 19.5 4.0 7.1 1.2 2.9 .2 30.0 .11 .82
Tom Heinsohn 758 30 20.3 7.3 2.3 1.1 2.5 1.1 29.2 .14 1.01
Bob Dandridge 937 36 18.8 6.5 3.4 1.3 3.0 .6 27.3 .12 1.02
Gus Williams 924 31 18.8 3.0 6.0 2.3 2.7 .4 29.2 .11 1.08
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:30 pm
by Crow
What is the rank order based on? It is not strictly T or anything else I can discern.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:22 am
by Mike G
T is the total of contributions in 36 minutes -- so it represents proficiency, productivity, or excellence.
In the course of a career, a player's
equivalent total productions can be estimated as T*minutes/36.
Including playoffs (and a bunch of standardizing adjustments), the leaders are:
Code: Select all
eTotals
71440 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
68032 Karl Malone
63233 Tim Duncan
62128 Wilt Chamberlain
58120 Shaquille O'Neal
57453 Kevin Garnett
56950 Michael Jordan
55779 Kobe Bryant
53991 LeBron James
53719 Hakeem Olajuwon
Rather than let the list be dominated by those with great longevity -- there's a case to be made for
excellence, also -- I take the square root of these eTotals, and multiply that by the T rate again. So it's better to reach 20,000 points and 10,000 rebounds at a higher rate, in fewer years/games/minutes.
I do the same thing with playoff eTotals and T. Players have a
playoff career. Since
players seem to think that's where career success lies, I merely agree. A meager playoff career is an indication that maybe the player got a lot of puffed up regular season stats with bad teams. And playoff excellence is a sign that maybe he's a great competitor.
So playoff T rate is multiplied by sqrt(eTotalsPO) and added to the overall product. Yeah, playoffs are in there twice, T rates 4X.
Being a member of a championship team -- a ring -- adds the equivalent of 10 playoff games to your PO eTotal.
Because winning also matters.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:46 am
by Mike G
Players who just had a great year made big strides up the list since last year.
Code: Select all
rapid risers 2015 2016
LeBron James 5 2
Kyrie Irving 496 230
Stephen Curry 121 66
Russell Westbrook 62 36
Kawhi Leonard 369 220
Kyle Lowry 371 235
Kevin Love 224 143
Paul George 273 185
DeMar DeRozan 574 405
James Harden 142 102
Goran Dragic 546 420
DeMarcus Cousins 305 238
Kevin Durant 47 37
John Wall 304 241
DeAndre Jordan 445 355
LaMarcus Aldridge 163 131
Al Horford 192 158
Jeff Teague 388 320
Chris Paul 37 31
Paul Millsap 161 137
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:14 am
by Mike G
So playoff T rate is multiplied by sqrt(eTpo) and added to the overall product...
Here's a closeup of our top 2 guys' subtotals:
Code: Select all
career T min eTotal
Jordan 44.4 48,487 56,950
LeBron 43.7 46,867 53,991
playoff Tpo min eTotal
Jordan 46.8 7474 9263
LeBron 43.8 8373 9663
Equivalent totals are just T*min/36, with a minor mpg adjustment.
When you take the square root of the eT, then multiply by T (again), you get a number with no units. Or call them 'credits'.
Here are the top 5 thru last year, and now:
Code: Select all
-2015 all PO total VTot T2
Jordan 10586 5142 15728 15463 15595
Kareem 10744 4095 14839 14273 14556
Wilt 10757 3513 14269 14521 14395
Duncan 10248 4335 14583 14056 14319
LeBron 9780 4178 13958 14255 14107
-2016 all PO total VTot T2
Duncan 10285 4326 14610 14099 14355
LeBron 10158 4589 14747 15178 14962
Duncan has the odd luck of losing rank while he's still playing. His 2016 playoffs were so weak by his career standards, his PO
credits total actually drops.
Mostly, though, it's just LeBron's relentless rise.
VTotals are an alternate total that includes a versatility index. T2 is then just the average of the 2.
With an epic postseason, LeBron's PO credits increased not quite 10%
Without the V, he's still behind Kareem at #3
With no added weight on playoffs, he trails all of them plus Shaq and Karl.
Without bonus credit for rings (for anyone), he's still #2; Wilt would jump Kareem, Malone over Shaq, Garnett over Magic; Kobe and Erving over Russell; Barkley over Erving and Russell; Baylor over Wade; Ewing over Oscar and Pippen ...
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:45 pm
by Mike G
Players with highest fraction of career minutes in playoffs:
Code: Select all
Kawhi Leonard .204
Robert Horry .200
Manu Ginobili .190
Magic Johnson .185
LeBron James .179
Tony Parker .178
Derek Fisher .172
Dwyane Wade .172
Michael Cooper .167
Larry Bird .167
These are just among players in "The 10,000 Club" -- 746 players with >10,000 equivalent total pts+reb+etc.
Most eTotals with zero playoff appearances:
Code: Select all
eTot no playoffs years
17119 Tom VanArsdale 66 77
13552 DeMarcus Cousins 11 16
12321 Greg Monroe 11 16
11066 Otto Moore 69 77
10389 Nate Williams 72 79
10178 Geoff Petrie 71 75
10064 Bob Kauffman 69 75
Monroe just escaped the Pistons (no playoffs in 5 years) to the Bucks, who missed.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:12 pm
by Mike G
The 2nd 100:
Code: Select all
101-110 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Maurice Lucas 1123 30 15.8 10.7 2.8 1.0 3.0 .8 27.4 .09 1.04
James Harden 611 33 23.9 5.1 5.3 1.6 3.3 .4 33.6 .13 .94
Sam Jones 1026 28 20.9 4.3 3.0 1.3 2.4 .5 27.5 .16 .97
Mark Jackson 1427 30 11.2 4.8 9.4 1.5 2.9 .1 26.0 .09 1.00
Nate Thurmond 1044 37 13.4 11.9 2.7 .6 2.4 2.6 29.2 .07 .94
Dennis Johnson 1280 34 14.8 4.3 5.2 1.5 2.6 .7 24.4 .16 1.01
Dave DeBusschere 971 36 14.9 9.4 2.8 1.3 2.3 1.5 27.9 .11 .98
Marques Johnson 735 35 20.4 7.5 3.6 1.4 2.5 .8 31.5 .08 .98
Tim Hardaway 923 35 18.3 3.6 8.3 1.7 3.0 .2 30.6 .06 .94
Dikembe Mutombo 1299 31 13.0 12.7 1.3 .5 2.1 3.3 29.0 .08 1.00
111-120 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Mark Aguirre 1025 30 22.2 6.0 3.4 .9 2.9 .4 29.4 .10 .94
Terry Porter 1398 28 15.7 3.9 6.6 1.5 2.6 .2 26.5 .10 1.01
Jeff Hornacek 1217 32 17.1 4.1 5.2 1.6 2.0 .2 27.1 .12 .96
Jermaine O'Neal 1103 27 18.4 10.1 1.8 .6 2.5 2.4 30.7 .09 .94
Richard Hamilton 1050 33 21.2 3.9 3.9 .9 2.5 .2 27.4 .14 1.03
Clyde Lovellette 775 27 21.8 9.4 2.0 1.0 2.8 1.5 32.3 .08 .94
Andre Miller 1372 31 15.4 4.6 7.4 1.4 2.8 .2 27.4 .05 .92
Deron Williams 854 35 18.9 3.7 8.0 1.1 3.1 .3 30.0 .09 .95
Antoine Walker 957 36 17.5 8.4 3.8 1.3 2.9 .5 28.5 .07 .90
Rod Strickland 1146 31 15.0 4.5 8.6 1.7 3.1 .2 28.7 .05 .96
121-130 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Paul Arizin 693 38 23.2 6.3 2.3 1.1 2.6 .9 30.7 .07 1.02
Larry Foust 819 29 18.5 9.8 2.2 1.1 2.6 1.5 30.1 .08 .97
Derrick Coleman 820 33 17.9 10.3 2.8 .8 2.8 1.5 30.5 .05 1.06
Zelmo Beaty 1004 34 17.2 9.3 1.6 .9 2.3 1.4 27.6 .13 .99
Anfernee Hardaway 752 35 17.8 5.0 5.6 1.7 2.8 .5 28.9 .10 1.10
David West 976 31 18.9 8.7 2.6 .9 2.0 .9 30.1 .09 .91
Bailey Howell 1037 32 19.1 8.2 2.0 1.0 2.4 1.3 28.8 .08 .87
Detlef Schrempf 1250 30 17.0 7.7 3.9 .9 2.4 .3 27.2 .09 .88
Bill Laimbeer 1181 32 13.9 11.0 2.1 .8 1.7 1.0 26.9 .10 .95
Maurice Cheeks 1234 32 12.6 3.3 7.1 2.4 2.4 .3 25.2 .12 1.05
131-140 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
LaMarcus Aldridge 766 35 21.1 9.4 1.9 .8 1.7 1.1 32.7 .06 .92
Bill Walton 517 28 15.7 12.8 4.0 1.0 3.6 2.7 33.2 .08 1.02
Chet Walker 1138 33 19.5 6.3 2.2 1.1 2.3 .9 27.5 .10 .94
Brad Daugherty 589 37 19.6 10.1 3.6 .8 2.8 .8 32.0 .07 1.02
Willis Reed 728 35 18.4 10.8 1.9 1.0 2.6 1.7 30.8 .10 .91
Charles Oakley 1426 32 11.1 11.4 2.8 1.2 2.5 .3 23.9 .11 1.00
Paul Millsap 750 31 18.4 9.7 2.7 1.6 2.2 1.3 31.8 .09 .90
Lenny Wilkens 1141 35 15.7 4.0 6.6 2.2 2.6 .4 27.7 .06 .93
Mookie Blaylock 943 35 14.0 4.5 7.2 2.4 2.5 .4 28.1 .07 1.01
Bobby Jones 1093 27 14.8 7.3 3.1 1.8 2.5 1.8 27.0 .14 .93
141-150 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Bernard King 899 34 23.4 6.2 3.3 1.1 3.4 .3 30.0 .03 1.10
Ben Wallace 1216 30 7.2 12.7 1.7 1.6 1.2 2.4 25.7 .12 1.06
Kevin Love 540 33 21.0 13.3 2.6 .7 2.2 .5 35.7 .04 .89
Marcus Camby 1049 29 11.3 12.7 2.1 1.2 1.7 2.9 29.6 .07 .87
Hal Greer 1213 36 17.9 4.0 3.9 1.6 2.3 .4 25.6 .08 .97
Otis Thorpe 1332 32 16.1 9.6 2.4 .8 2.5 .4 26.0 .06 .93
Walter Davis 1111 28 22.1 3.7 4.3 1.5 3.1 .2 28.7 .07 .97
Ron Harper 1121 31 15.3 5.1 4.4 2.0 2.5 .8 26.0 .09 .91
Tom Chambers 1214 30 19.6 7.3 2.2 .9 2.7 .7 27.1 .08 .91
Al Jefferson 834 30 20.1 11.2 1.7 .9 1.7 1.5 33.9 .02 .85
151-160 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Marc Gasol 622 34 17.1 9.2 3.3 1.0 2.1 1.6 30.6 .10 1.00
Vern Mikkelsen 634 32 18.2 8.5 2.4 1.2 2.5 1.3 28.8 .10 .94
Yao Ming 514 33 25.6 11.1 1.8 .4 3.0 2.1 37.4 .06 .88
Bill Bridges 1039 33 11.7 10.6 2.8 1.3 2.2 1.7 26.1 .10 .99
Rik Smits 968 27 19.7 8.3 1.8 .6 2.4 1.6 28.9 .11 1.02
Spencer Haywood 889 35 19.6 9.6 1.8 .7 2.9 1.3 29.6 .05 .95
Mel Daniels 748 35 14.5 11.5 1.7 .9 2.3 1.8 27.9 .15 .97
Al Horford 652 34 16.7 10.1 3.0 .9 1.7 1.4 30.9 .12 .89
Robert Horry 1352 25 10.2 7.1 3.1 1.5 1.7 1.3 22.1 .20 1.08
Jason Terry 1400 31 17.9 3.0 4.7 1.3 2.1 .2 25.8 .09 .90
161-170 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Johnny Kerr 981 31 14.5 9.7 2.4 1.2 2.3 1.5 27.3 .08 .93
Antawn Jamison 1129 35 18.9 8.2 1.6 1.0 1.7 .4 28.2 .04 .92
Joe Johnson 1244 36 17.8 4.3 3.9 .9 2.1 .2 25.5 .09 .91
Jerome Kersey 1257 25 13.5 7.8 2.4 1.7 1.9 1.0 24.7 .11 1.08
Sam Perkins 1453 28 14.6 7.7 1.8 1.0 1.5 .9 24.6 .12 .96
Buck Williams 1415 33 14.0 11.4 1.3 .9 2.4 .9 25.5 .08 .85
Ed Macauley 549 35 20.4 6.4 3.4 1.4 2.6 .9 30.3 .07 .88
Zydrun. Ilgauskas 923 27 18.2 10.7 1.5 .6 2.3 2.0 30.4 .08 .91
Toni Kukoc 945 26 16.1 5.8 5.0 1.3 2.4 .4 27.1 .11 .94
Eddie Jones 1035 34 17.6 4.6 3.3 1.8 1.7 .7 27.1 .08 .90
171-180 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Lafayette Lever 797 32 13.5 6.7 6.3 2.5 2.2 .3 28.7 .06 .94
Jamaal Wilkes 941 33 17.9 6.5 2.5 1.4 2.3 .4 26.2 .12 .92
Harry Gallatin 535 32 17.7 11.3 2.1 1.1 2.6 1.8 31.3 .07 .94
Andre Iguodala 993 35 14.6 5.8 4.4 1.7 2.2 .5 25.6 .09 .92
Latrell Sprewell 975 39 17.9 4.2 4.0 1.4 2.6 .4 25.6 .07 1.05
Kevin Willis 1517 27 15.2 11.0 1.2 .9 2.3 .7 25.8 .06 .91
Billy Paultz 1240 28 13.0 9.3 2.3 .7 2.1 2.0 25.3 .11 .95
Chris Mullin 1058 32 19.3 4.6 3.5 1.7 2.6 .6 27.6 .06 .86
Gail Goodrich 1111 33 19.0 2.9 4.8 1.5 3.0 .2 25.6 .07 1.02
Kenyon Martin 869 31 15.1 8.5 2.3 1.4 2.1 1.4 26.6 .13 .99
181-190 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Terrell Brandon 762 30 17.6 4.0 7.7 1.9 2.3 .4 31.1 .04 .93
Stephon Marbury 878 37 19.6 3.1 7.7 1.2 3.0 .1 29.9 .03 .77
Sidney Moncrief 860 31 18.5 5.7 4.0 1.4 2.4 .4 27.8 .12 .89
George Yardley 518 34 21.9 7.7 2.0 1.0 2.6 1.2 30.7 .10 1.01
Paul George 434 33 21.1 7.2 3.7 1.8 2.8 .5 31.8 .16 .98
Antonio McDyess 1115 27 15.6 10.3 1.6 1.0 2.0 1.4 27.6 .08 .90
Cliffo. Robinson 1521 31 16.1 5.4 2.7 1.2 2.1 1.2 24.6 .08 .81
Mark Price 769 30 19.0 3.2 7.9 1.4 3.0 .1 30.1 .07 .95
Rashard Lewis 1139 32 18.3 6.3 1.9 1.2 1.7 .6 26.5 .08 .92
Dave Bing 933 36 18.9 3.4 5.9 2.0 2.6 .2 28.8 .03 .93
191-200 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Sam Lacey 1029 32 10.5 10.4 4.1 1.6 3.0 1.8 25.9 .03 .99
Dan Roundfield 851 30 16.3 10.7 2.3 1.0 3.0 1.7 28.8 .05 .95
Jo Jo White 917 36 16.5 3.7 4.9 1.3 2.9 .2 24.0 .10 1.10
Bill Sharman 757 32 21.1 3.4 3.2 1.4 2.4 .2 26.9 .10 .94
Michael Finley 1230 34 17.1 4.8 3.1 1.0 1.6 .3 25.3 .09 .84
Mike Bibby 1105 34 16.3 3.6 5.8 1.3 2.3 .2 25.7 .10 .87
Mitch Richmond 997 35 21.4 4.2 3.5 1.3 2.8 .3 27.8 .02 .93
Earl Monroe 1008 32 19.8 3.0 4.1 1.2 2.3 .3 26.3 .08 .99
Mychal Thompson 1039 29 15.0 9.1 2.5 .9 2.7 1.4 25.9 .09 .89
Derek Harper 1296 32 14.8 2.8 6.1 1.9 2.2 .3 24.9 .08 .93
ABA numbers are downgraded, from a lot in the early years to very little at the end. Each year's player movements to/from the NBA have been analyzed for equivalency of scoring, rebound, and assist rates. Minutes are unadjusted.
No credit is given for seasons prior to 1952; minutes were not recorded before then.
Player equivalent productions before the 82-game standard season are pro-rated to 82-game equivalents.
Lockout-shortened seasons have not been pro-rated.
Assist rates from earlier eras are upgraded to more modern standard Ast/FG ratios.
Pre-1974 steals and blocks are estimated from player assists and rebounds, respectively. Pre-1978 turnovers are estimated from other productions.
Rebound rates are adjusted to opponent Reb/G, which before 1971 are estimated from known team rates.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:28 pm
by Mike G
The 3rd hundred, and we're still finding all-stars and Hall of Famers.
Code: Select all
201-210 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Dennis Rodman 1080 31 8.5 15.2 2.0 .8 1.9 .7 24.7 .14 .89
Richie Guerin 878 33 17.3 4.1 5.3 1.9 2.5 .4 27.3 .05 .96
Derrick Rose 446 35 22.1 4.1 6.2 .9 3.1 .4 31.2 .10 1.07
Danny Manning 920 28 17.9 6.7 3.0 1.4 2.7 1.1 27.3 .05 1.05
Connie Hawkins 649 36 16.3 7.3 3.9 1.6 2.4 1.1 28.4 .06 .94
Steve Smith 1029 31 18.7 4.0 3.7 .9 2.1 .3 25.7 .09 .98
Joakim Noah 631 30 12.6 12.3 3.6 1.0 2.2 1.6 29.4 .11 .91
Lou Hudson 951 34 20.4 4.2 2.8 1.6 2.4 .3 26.9 .07 .94
Glenn Rivers 943 28 13.4 4.0 6.9 2.3 2.4 .5 26.1 .09 1.02
David Lee 778 30 17.6 11.3 2.5 .9 2.2 .4 30.1 .02 .89
211-220 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Ron Artest 1051 33 15.4 5.4 3.0 2.0 2.0 .6 24.8 .09 .92
Andrei Kirilenko 845 30 15.5 7.4 3.2 1.7 2.3 2.2 28.9 .06 .76
Byron Scott 1256 28 17.0 3.7 2.9 1.4 1.8 .3 23.8 .15 .94
Mickey Johnson 923 28 16.6 8.9 3.5 1.4 3.7 .9 27.0 .02 1.09
Jack Twyman 855 32 20.3 5.7 2.5 1.2 2.4 .8 27.6 .04 .96
Larry Kenon 809 33 16.7 9.3 2.3 1.4 3.1 .4 26.4 .07 .97
Alvin Robertson 792 32 14.4 6.1 5.3 3.1 3.1 .5 27.3 .02 1.16
Steve Francis 581 38 19.2 6.0 6.3 1.5 3.5 .4 30.2 .01 1.09
Richard Jefferson 1208 30 17.5 5.5 2.6 .9 2.0 .4 24.7 .10 .93
Kawhi Leonard 399 30 19.2 8.1 2.4 2.1 1.5 .8 31.9 .20 .94
221-230 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Paul Silas 1417 28 10.5 10.6 2.5 .8 1.9 .3 22.5 .12 .92
Hersey Hawkins 1057 33 16.9 4.2 3.2 1.8 2.1 .3 25.0 .07 1.01
Anthony Mason 975 35 12.7 9.2 3.7 .8 1.9 .3 24.8 .09 .88
Larry Johnson 773 36 16.9 7.9 3.3 .8 2.1 .4 27.0 .09 .89
Shareef AbdurRahim 836 34 20.1 8.5 2.8 1.1 2.7 .8 30.2 .00 .61
Gilbert Arenas 583 35 22.2 4.2 5.2 1.7 3.3 .3 30.6 .05 .96
Fred Brown 1044 25 18.6 3.5 4.2 1.8 2.3 .3 26.5 .07 1.00
Nene Hilario 867 28 16.6 8.7 2.4 1.5 2.5 1.0 27.6 .08 .87
Joe Dumars 1130 35 17.5 2.4 4.8 .9 2.1 .1 24.1 .10 .96
Kyrie Irving 343 34 23.9 3.8 5.5 1.5 2.9 .4 32.8 .11 1.07
231-240 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Christian Laettner 913 29 16.2 8.6 3.1 1.3 2.7 .9 27.3 .04 .86
Arvydas Sabonis 521 25 18.3 10.8 3.0 1.1 2.4 1.4 32.3 .11 .90
Glenn Robinson 727 36 21.1 6.6 2.8 1.2 3.1 .6 28.8 .04 .88
Luol Deng 884 36 17.0 6.8 2.3 1.0 1.8 .5 26.1 .08 .95
Kyle Lowry 687 31 16.9 5.1 6.5 1.6 2.6 .3 28.7 .07 .90
Calvin Murphy 1053 31 19.8 2.3 4.9 1.7 2.2 .1 27.0 .05 .97
Paul Westphal 930 25 20.4 2.5 5.6 1.7 3.2 .4 28.1 .11 .86
DeMarcus Cousins 415 32 22.7 13.0 3.0 1.6 4.0 1.4 37.1 .00 .93
Glen Rice 1055 35 20.1 4.9 2.2 1.0 1.8 .3 26.4 .06 .87
Don Nelson 1203 21 15.8 6.3 2.2 1.1 2.1 .9 23.8 .13 1.01
241-250 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
John Wall 440 36 18.7 4.7 8.4 1.7 3.9 .7 31.7 .04 .95
Nick Van Exel 955 33 15.5 3.3 7.2 .9 2.3 .1 26.0 .08 .91
John Starks 959 28 17.0 3.3 4.8 1.4 2.3 .1 24.8 .11 1.08
Randy Smith 998 32 17.1 3.9 4.9 1.9 2.8 .1 25.6 .03 1.09
Xavier McDaniel 901 30 18.0 7.7 2.4 1.1 2.6 .6 26.5 .06 .97
Tayshaun Prince 1157 32 14.0 5.5 2.8 .7 1.3 .6 22.9 .14 .99
Brad Miller 917 28 14.8 9.3 3.4 .9 2.0 .9 27.4 .05 .82
AC Green 1431 28 11.7 9.5 1.3 1.0 1.4 .5 22.5 .10 .95
Jason Richardson 875 34 18.6 5.5 2.7 1.3 1.9 .5 26.8 .04 1.00
Jamal Mashburn 663 37 19.0 5.6 4.2 1.0 2.6 .2 27.5 .08 .93
251-260 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Jerry Stackhouse 1045 31 19.9 3.9 4.0 1.0 3.1 .5 26.2 .07 .82
Norm Nixon 827 36 14.7 2.7 7.8 1.6 3.2 .1 24.9 .08 1.03
Andrew Bogut 702 29 13.2 11.7 2.7 .8 2.2 2.0 28.5 .06 .91
Pete Maravich 684 37 22.1 3.8 5.2 1.4 4.1 .3 28.4 .03 .92
John Drew 768 29 23.1 7.9 1.9 1.6 3.3 .3 30.3 .03 .73
Willie Wise 629 34 16.4 7.1 2.9 1.4 2.6 .4 25.3 .13 1.06
Elden Campbell 1149 24 14.3 8.4 1.6 .9 1.8 2.1 25.7 .08 .92
Cedric Maxwell 933 28 15.6 7.8 2.5 1.0 2.7 .6 24.4 .10 .99
Roger Brown 715 36 14.3 4.8 3.5 1.1 1.8 .8 23.1 .16 1.10
Jameer Nelson 797 29 16.7 4.2 6.4 1.2 2.8 .1 26.3 .06 1.08
261-270 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Nate Archibald 923 36 18.3 2.3 7.3 1.2 3.2 .1 26.9 .05 .81
Ron Boone 1125 31 16.3 4.0 4.0 1.5 3.5 .2 22.2 .08 1.04
Jalen Rose 981 30 17.9 4.3 4.6 .9 2.7 .4 25.5 .06 .93
David Thompson 632 33 22.6 4.3 3.3 1.1 3.1 .9 29.1 .07 .95
Peja Stojakovic 899 33 20.0 5.3 1.8 1.0 1.5 .2 26.7 .10 .86
Mike Conley 687 33 16.4 3.5 6.1 1.7 2.3 .2 26.8 .08 1.04
Damon Stoudamire 869 33 15.0 4.2 7.1 1.2 2.6 .1 26.1 .06 .86
Sidney Wicks 769 34 16.7 8.7 3.3 1.1 3.0 .8 27.2 .01 1.03
Eddie Johnson 1284 27 18.8 5.3 2.4 .8 2.2 .2 24.7 .06 .91
Ralph Sampson 494 30 16.9 10.5 2.5 1.0 3.6 1.9 28.7 .09 1.08
271-280 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Reggie Theus 1043 34 18.1 3.6 6.2 1.3 3.7 .2 25.8 .02 .86
Boris Diaw 1099 28 12.3 6.1 4.4 .8 2.3 .6 22.2 .10 1.07
Vinnie Johnson 1095 25 15.3 4.3 4.1 1.1 2.1 .3 23.4 .10 1.04
Mich. R Richardson 574 34 14.4 6.1 7.0 2.9 3.6 .4 28.4 .04 .91
Hot Rod Williams 938 30 13.1 8.5 2.1 1.0 1.6 1.9 25.6 .06 .98
Rolando Blackman 1045 33 19.0 3.8 3.2 .8 2.1 .3 25.1 .06 .95
Gus Johnson 682 33 15.1 10.2 2.6 1.2 2.4 1.6 28.4 .06 .86
Dan Majerle 1079 32 13.0 5.3 3.2 1.4 1.3 .4 22.8 .12 .96
Ray Scott 850 29 14.4 9.0 2.5 1.2 2.2 1.4 26.4 .05 .99
Juwan Howard 1257 30 16.1 7.9 2.7 .8 2.5 .3 24.8 .02 .78
281-290 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Jeff Mullins 873 31 17.4 3.9 4.2 1.7 2.3 .4 25.8 .08 .91
Rudy Tomjanovich 797 34 18.3 8.2 2.1 .7 1.8 .3 27.5 .04 .91
Rudy LaRusso 831 33 15.1 7.5 2.2 1.1 2.1 1.1 24.7 .12 .91
Dale Davis 1231 27 10.9 11.0 1.2 .8 1.3 1.5 24.0 .11 .92
Paul Pressey 799 27 13.2 5.1 6.2 1.8 3.0 .8 24.9 .10 .97
Bob Love 836 33 19.5 6.0 1.6 .9 2.2 .8 26.1 .08 1.00
Danny Ainge 1235 27 14.2 3.5 4.8 1.4 1.9 .2 22.6 .15 .89
Avery Johnson 1135 26 11.8 2.4 7.8 1.3 2.3 .2 22.9 .09 1.10
Vin Baker 815 32 16.8 9.0 2.2 .8 2.5 1.1 27.0 .03 .94
Joe Graboski 776 30 14.6 7.9 2.4 1.2 2.1 1.2 25.1 .04 1.00
291-300 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Hedo Turkoglu 1106 27 15.6 5.6 3.7 1.0 2.1 .4 24.1 .10 .85
Drew Gooden 854 25 15.8 10.8 1.5 .9 2.1 .8 27.3 .07 .94
Frank Ramsey 721 25 17.3 5.2 2.3 1.1 2.1 .7 24.0 .14 1.01
Allan Houston 902 34 20.8 3.4 2.7 .7 2.3 .2 25.1 .08 .99
Jack Coleman 545 33 13.1 8.6 3.3 1.4 2.2 1.3 26.0 .09 .96
Darryl Dawkins 814 24 17.3 8.6 1.7 .7 3.3 2.0 25.7 .14 .99
PJ Brown 1195 31 10.9 9.5 1.9 1.0 1.4 1.2 23.1 .08 .92
Mehmet Okur 705 29 17.6 9.7 2.0 .7 1.9 .9 28.6 .08 .79
Roy Hibbert 668 26 15.5 9.6 1.9 .5 2.3 2.4 27.4 .10 1.04
Nick Anderson 849 31 16.1 6.0 2.9 1.6 1.9 .5 25.7 .07 .88
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:45 pm
by Mike G
This bit starts with Cliff Robinson the first, 1980-89.
Code: Select all
301-310 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Cliff Robinson 634 31 18.2 9.9 2.2 1.2 2.9 .8 28.8 .02 1.01
Tyson Chandler 1062 28 12.4 12.3 1.1 .7 1.9 1.6 25.8 .07 .82
Andrew Bynum 491 25 18.1 11.6 1.5 .5 2.2 2.2 31.5 .14 .88
Corey Maggette 839 28 21.5 6.4 2.4 .9 2.8 .2 27.6 .01 1.19
World B Free 922 30 21.6 3.2 4.1 1.2 2.9 .3 27.5 .03 .86
Happy Hairston 843 31 15.5 9.5 1.8 .9 2.1 .2 25.0 .08 .89
Phil Chenier 629 34 18.6 3.6 3.2 1.8 2.3 .6 26.1 .10 1.03
Billy Knight 852 29 19.1 6.1 2.6 1.2 2.8 .2 26.0 .04 1.01
Kenny Anderson 891 30 14.5 3.7 7.3 1.7 2.4 .2 26.4 .04 .85
Stephen Jackson 930 32 17.4 4.6 3.2 1.5 2.8 .4 24.1 .08 .92
311-320 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Arnie Risen 490 28 15.9 10.0 2.0 1.0 2.4 1.6 27.8 .07 1.00
Gerald Wallace 864 29 15.4 7.6 2.4 1.7 2.2 1.0 26.3 .03 .94
Archie Clark 795 33 17.0 3.1 5.1 1.9 2.3 .2 25.7 .09 .91
Jamal Crawford 1162 31 18.2 2.9 3.8 1.1 2.2 .2 24.3 .05 .92
Derrick McKey 1080 28 13.5 6.1 3.0 1.3 2.3 .8 22.5 .12 .92
Clifford Ray 844 26 10.0 11.1 2.9 1.1 2.6 1.4 23.6 .08 1.06
Caron Butler 947 32 16.3 6.0 2.4 1.5 2.1 .3 24.3 .07 .90
Michael Cooper 1038 27 10.6 4.2 4.8 1.5 2.1 .8 20.6 .17 1.04
Calvin Natt 641 32 18.6 7.8 2.2 1.0 2.4 .4 27.2 .07 .96
Jeff Teague 580 26 18.0 3.0 6.9 1.6 3.0 .5 28.2 .12 .97
321-330 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Charlie Scott 762 36 18.3 3.6 4.7 1.4 3.4 .3 24.7 .06 .89
Monta Ellis 744 37 19.0 3.5 4.5 1.8 2.9 .3 26.7 .04 .84
Ray Williams 696 28 17.1 4.5 6.6 2.2 4.0 .4 27.4 .05 .85
Brook Lopez 500 33 21.3 8.7 1.4 .7 2.2 2.0 31.8 .03 1.01
Truck Robinson 844 32 16.0 10.3 1.9 .8 3.0 .7 25.7 .06 .81
Luis Scola 755 26 17.8 9.9 2.2 .9 2.1 .4 28.4 .05 .82
Antonio Davis 996 29 12.7 9.7 1.5 .6 1.8 1.2 23.4 .09 1.04
Jimmy Jones 772 35 14.8 3.5 4.4 1.7 2.1 .3 23.2 .12 1.05
Sleepy Floyd 993 28 14.9 3.3 6.4 1.5 3.0 .3 24.2 .04 1.08
Norm VanLier 784 35 11.7 4.6 7.3 1.9 2.8 .2 24.0 .06 .98
331-340 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Caldwell Jones 1423 27 8.9 10.0 1.6 .7 2.2 2.3 21.1 .10 .99
Tom Gola 737 33 11.5 6.7 4.5 1.7 2.1 1.0 24.1 .06 .95
Donyell Marshall 932 26 15.1 9.3 1.9 1.1 1.8 1.2 26.9 .04 .82
Ricky Pierce 1066 25 20.6 3.4 2.5 1.1 2.1 .2 25.3 .10 .89
Tom Gugliotta 775 31 14.5 9.0 3.3 1.7 2.7 .8 26.9 .01 .78
Dale Ellis 1331 28 18.8 4.4 1.7 1.0 1.8 .2 23.8 .05 .91
Derek Fisher 1545 26 11.9 3.0 3.9 1.5 1.5 .1 19.3 .17 .98
Bill Cartwright 1085 29 15.7 8.1 1.7 .6 2.4 .8 23.8 .11 .77
Robert Reid 995 28 12.8 5.8 3.3 1.4 1.9 .6 22.2 .10 1.04
Guy Rodgers 938 32 10.8 3.5 8.1 2.4 2.4 .3 24.7 .05 .92
341-350 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Jeff Ruland 338 35 19.9 11.3 3.3 .8 4.0 .9 31.1 .05 .95
Chuck Person 992 31 16.3 6.1 3.1 .8 2.4 .2 23.7 .04 .97
Tom Owens 917 24 15.2 9.0 2.4 .7 2.5 .8 24.6 .05 1.03
Josh Howard 573 30 17.9 7.4 1.8 1.2 1.8 .6 27.2 .12 .94
James Edwards 1275 24 16.6 7.1 1.6 .5 2.3 1.0 23.6 .07 .83
Kiki Vandeweghe 878 30 21.2 4.0 2.1 .7 1.9 .4 26.1 .06 .95
Gar Heard 841 25 10.5 9.7 2.0 1.7 1.8 1.8 24.6 .08 1.03
John Johnson 941 29 14.0 6.2 4.4 .9 3.5 .4 22.1 .07 .91
Reggie Lewis 491 32 19.0 5.0 2.7 1.4 1.8 1.0 27.8 .08 1.06
Scott Wedman 985 28 15.2 5.8 2.3 1.2 1.8 .4 22.9 .07 .99
351-360 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Rodney McCray 814 33 12.4 7.3 3.8 .9 2.1 .7 23.5 .06 .95
Bob Boozer 922 29 16.0 7.6 1.6 .9 2.1 1.1 24.7 .05 .93
Joe Barry Carroll 711 33 17.5 8.5 1.8 1.1 3.1 1.8 27.1 .02 .90
J.R. Smith 929 27 17.5 4.5 2.7 1.3 1.8 .3 24.5 .10 .86
DeAndre Jordan 642 27 12.5 13.3 .8 .8 1.7 2.3 28.2 .09 .97
Jerry Sloan 805 34 13.8 6.8 2.6 2.2 2.0 .2 23.9 .07 .93
Sweetwater Clifton 518 30 12.9 8.5 3.2 1.4 2.2 1.3 25.4 .08 1.08
Rudy Gay 652 37 19.6 6.4 2.2 1.4 2.5 .8 27.8 .01 .90
Wayne Embry 887 26 14.3 8.9 1.8 .9 2.1 1.4 24.8 .06 .92
Damian Lillard 348 37 22.2 3.8 6.0 .9 2.8 .3 31.1 .09 .90
361-370 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Mike Gminski 968 26 14.5 9.6 1.6 .7 2.0 1.4 25.8 .04 .95
John Lucas 973 27 12.5 2.9 8.2 1.7 2.7 .1 24.4 .04 .99
Johnny Moore 556 26 11.2 4.0 9.0 2.6 3.0 .3 26.2 .08 1.17
Doug Christie 876 32 12.9 4.8 4.2 2.1 2.4 .5 23.1 .07 .94
Louie Dampier 1069 34 13.8 2.2 5.0 1.1 2.0 .4 21.3 .11 .98
Elmore Smith 575 32 14.2 10.7 1.6 1.0 2.6 3.5 29.0 .02 1.02
Dick Barnett 1064 30 17.3 2.7 3.2 1.4 2.0 .0 22.5 .09 .97
Kirk Hinrich 948 31 13.6 3.6 5.5 1.3 2.2 .3 22.8 .07 .99
Sean Elliott 827 33 16.1 4.8 2.8 .8 2.0 .4 23.0 .10 .96
Thurl Bailey 997 27 15.6 6.6 1.7 .6 2.0 1.5 24.0 .08 .95
371-380 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Johnny Green 1077 23 14.7 9.6 1.8 1.0 2.2 1.5 26.1 .01 .83
Trevor Ariza 869 29 13.3 6.3 2.5 1.8 1.8 .4 22.9 .06 1.05
Marcin Gortat 662 25 15.2 11.3 1.3 .7 1.6 1.6 28.5 .07 .92
Swen Nater 745 29 14.1 13.6 2.0 .6 2.9 .7 27.1 .03 .85
Kurt Thomas 1205 24 11.9 10.1 1.6 .9 1.6 1.1 23.5 .06 .87
Mike Mitchell 790 33 19.5 6.3 1.3 .8 1.9 .6 26.0 .04 .98
Larry Hughes 767 31 15.7 5.1 3.6 1.8 2.5 .4 24.6 .07 .90
Greg Ballard 865 27 14.5 7.5 2.6 1.4 1.7 .4 25.0 .06 .87
Bobby Wanzer 391 33 17.7 4.7 4.0 1.6 2.4 .6 26.7 .06 1.20
Al Harrington 1036 28 16.6 7.2 2.0 1.1 2.3 .3 24.2 .04 .84
381-390 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Nate McMillan 894 25 7.4 5.7 7.6 2.5 2.5 .6 23.2 .10 .94
Mack Calvin 829 29 16.9 2.7 5.3 1.7 3.6 .1 23.1 .09 1.02
Willie Naulls 751 28 16.9 8.0 1.8 .9 2.2 1.2 26.3 .02 .76
David Wesley 1004 32 14.7 3.0 5.1 1.5 2.2 .2 23.2 .06 .88
Joe Smith 1091 26 14.3 9.0 1.3 .8 1.7 1.1 24.4 .06 .84
Armon Gilliam 963 28 16.5 8.7 1.4 .9 2.3 .8 25.6 .03 .85
Jeff Malone 949 33 20.1 3.0 2.5 .7 1.9 .1 24.3 .06 .96
Serge Ibaka 616 29 15.0 9.5 .8 .5 1.5 3.0 27.7 .15 .86
Tom Boerwinkle 660 23 10.3 11.8 4.6 .7 3.1 .8 24.8 .05 1.13
Joe Caldwell 843 32 15.1 4.7 3.5 2.3 3.3 .5 22.7 .08 .91
391-400 G Min Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk T po% p/r
Mike Miller 1106 26 15.4 5.8 3.2 .7 2.0 .3 23.4 .05 .75
Dick McGuire 650 29 10.6 4.1 7.2 2.3 2.3 .4 24.2 .08 1.02
Kendall Gill 993 30 14.4 5.0 3.5 1.8 2.1 .5 23.6 .03 .87
Mo Williams 880 29 16.9 3.6 5.5 1.1 2.8 .2 24.7 .06 .80
Raymond Felton 805 33 13.8 3.7 6.3 1.5 2.6 .2 24.0 .04 .97
Bonzi Wells 639 25 17.3 6.9 3.0 1.7 2.8 .4 26.4 .07 .93
Chuck Share 648 22 13.8 10.1 2.1 1.1 2.3 1.6 26.0 .07 .85
Jim Jackson 933 33 15.5 5.3 3.6 .9 2.7 .2 22.8 .04 .92
Keith Van Horn 632 31 18.7 8.1 1.9 .9 2.5 .6 26.9 .07 .79
Cazzie Russell 889 27 18.0 4.0 2.7 1.2 2.1 .4 24.3 .07 .93
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:42 am
by bchaikin
you have chris webber ranked 42th, larry nance 75th...
they played similar career regular season minutes, webber was the better scorer and rebounder but not by much, their career pts/40 just 22.3 vs. 20.4 pts/40...
but nance shot much better overall (7% better ScFG%, 57.6% vs. 50.6%) with far fewer turnovers (2.2 vs. 3.0 TO/40min) and was thus far more efficient on offense (2.52 vs. 1.92 pts/0ptposs) over 30,000+ minutes while also being the significantly better defender...
would take nance over webber in a heartbeat...
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:48 am
by Mike G
I would, too, if I wanted more defense and didn't need the offense.
Webber has better productivity than Nance (T), 35.2 to 32.2. His equivalent totals are thus greater by 8.5%
Webber has a higher versatility rating, because his per36 (Ast+Stl) total 5.6, to 3.7 for Nance. This increases the difference in their 'credits', to +22% for Webber.
Code: Select all
eTotal cred eTpo cred TCred Tv
31764 6265 2446 1544 7809 7877
29287 5511 1976 1318 6829 6022
Neither had a spectacular playoff career -- Webber with more minutes but a bigger dropoff in proficiency. With double counting PO, advantage CWebb.
Without the versatility factor, Webber drops to 52, Nance remains at 75.
Nance had 3 All-Star nods, 3 all-D teams (1st, 2nd, 2nd), and was once 13th in MVP voting.
Webber made 5 consecutive all-NBA teams, including a 1st team. Finished as high as 4th in MVP vote. That's pretty serious stuff.
Most seasons averaging at least 23 pts, 10 reb, 4 ast:
Code: Select all
23-10-4
9 Kareem
8 Baylor
5 Barkley
5 Wilt
4 Webber
3 Bird
3 Oscar
He's always showing up in lists such as this. A very rare talent. With more discipline/durability, he might have made alltime top 20.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:16 am
by Mike G
Here's a career playoff over- and under-achiever list, top and bottom 40.
Ranked by PO productions -- points, rebounds, etc -- over or under their RS rates.
Code: Select all
po+ overs poMin Tpo+ po+ unders poMin Tpo+
902 Jordan 7474 2.4 -489 Wilt 7258 -4.3
763 Olajuwon 5749 2.9 -435 Payton 5452 -4.8
683 Horry 6772 1.7 -376 Cassell 3821 -5.4
620 Russell 7497 1.1 -357 Cartwright 3496 -5.6
575 Isiah 4216 3.0 -340 KMalone 7907 -3.4
525 Pippen 8105 .4 -307 CRobinson 3887 -4.7
516 Reggie 5309 1.6 -306 Battier 3025 -5.5
478 RBrown 4030 2.4 -268 Parker 7479 -3.2
477 Rondo 3570 2.9 -226 Finley 3857 -4.0
473 Worthy 5297 1.3 -207 Kirilenko 1490 -6.9
460 LeBron 8373 .1 -207 BBarry 1753 -6.2
455 Havlicek 6860 .5 -206 Sikma 3558 -4.0
442 West 6306 .6 -202 BuWilliams 3710 -3.9
426 Cheeks 4848 1.3 -195 DHarris 1518 -6.5
425 DJohnson 7004 .3 -192 THill 1863 -5.6
420 Billups 5272 1.0 -190 Okur 1677 -6.0
413 BWallace 4447 1.4 -189 Bosh 3089 -4.1
412 RBarry 4061 1.8 -170 Chandler 2193 -4.7
400 White 3428 2.3 -168 MMiller 1550 -5.8
398 Hayes 4160 1.5 -167 Stackhouse 2161 -4.7
371 GusWilliams 3205 2.3 -166 Pettit 3545 -3.6
367 Cowens 3768 1.6 -166 Webber 2926 -3.9
364 Kersey 3394 2.0 -165 GAnthony 2133 -4.7
362 Hamilton 4990 .7 -163 Marion 3733 -3.5
359 FLewis 4151 1.2 -160 R Allen 2921 -3.9
347 Hagan 3080 2.2 -155 JeLucas 2370 -4.3
347 AHardaway 2640 2.8 -155 Ibaka 2759 -3.9
347 MCooper 4744 .7 -155 VanHorn 1465 -5.7
334 Starks 3007 2.1 -153 Hunter 2051 -4.6
331 BDavis 1850 4.5 -152 Szczerbiak 1553 -5.4
320 AJohnson 2757 2.3 -151 CBoozer 2733 -3.9
295 Frazier 3953 .8 -149 Archibald 1642 -5.2
294 Grant 6172 -.2 -149 Marbury 1063 -6.9
294 Fisher 6802 -.3 -147 MBibby 3596 -3.4
289 BryRussell 3043 1.5 -144 WMatthews 1171 -6.3
286 Diaw 2940 1.6 -141 Howell 2722 -3.8
271 Kemp 2937 1.4 -139 Stojakovic 2933 -3.6
267 Iverson 3205 1.1 -138 TrRobinson 1736 -4.8
264 JiJones 3224 1.1 -137 Nesterovich 1106 -6.4
263 Westbrook 3094 1.2 -137 DRobinson 4221 -3.1
The Tpo+ column is a player's career PO T rate minus his RS T rate. The average seems to be about -1.9, so I added 1.9, then multiplied by Min/36.
Horace Grant and Derek Fisher had slightly lower rates in PO; but much better than the norm, and with many minutes; so they're seen as playoff overachievers.
Several caveats are in order. Some guys -- Wilt, Cartwright -- got their biggest playoff minutes outside their prime years. Some -- Cliff Robinson -- could rank worse if his teams weren't generally bumped off early in playoffs.
Bryon Russell followed one very weak year with a super playoff run. That one season creates the bulk of his surplus.
Roger Brown and Freddie Lewis represent the ABA. The Pacers' backcourt, they were.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:14 pm
by bchaikin
I would, too, if I wanted more defense and didn't need the offense.
are you seriously trying to infer webber was the better offensive player than nance?...
nance scored almost as much as webber (20.4 vs. 22.3 pts/40min) in similar minutes, but shot 7% better with far fewer turnovers, not in just one single season, but over 30,000 minutes - that's like 10 years of 82 games a season and 36-37 min/g that nance was far more efficient on offense while scoring almost as much...
Webber has better productivity than Nance (T), 35.2 to 32.2. His equivalent totals are thus greater by 8.5%
Webber has a higher versatility rating, because his per36 (Ast+Stl) total 5.6, to 3.7 for Nance. This increases the difference in their 'credits', to +22% for Webber.
not only did webber commit far more turnovers in similar minutes to nance, he also missed far more shots (7832 missed FGA vs 5294 missed FGA for nance), which is far more defensive rebounds by the opponent, which is far more zero point team possessions webber was personally responsible for than nance...
do you realize how offensively efficient nance's career 2.52 pts/0ptposs is? dirk nowitzki in his career was at 2.62 pts/0ptposs - for every zero point team possession he was personally responsible for he scored 2.62 pts. nance scored 2.52, webber just 1.92. that's a huge difference...
you can quote "productivity" and "versatility" ratings all you want, but the fact is nance was the better defender and the far better player on offense than was webber...
He's always showing up in lists such as this. A very rare talent.
and you can "customize" any most seasons averaging list to include a specific player - here's all players with the most seasons of 16+ pts/g, 8+ reb/g, 2+ bs/g (2000 minutes minimum):
9 - kareem abdul-jabbar, david robinson
8 - elvin hayes, larry nance
With more discipline/durability, he might have made alltime top 20.
yes - had webber shot much better, committed far fewer turnovers, and played better defense, he could have been an all-time top 20 player...
That's pretty serious stuff.
not including offensive efficiency and player defense skews your all-time listing...
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:49 pm
by Mike G
Well, I have always been a very big fan of Larry Nance. All your points about his shooting efficiency are right on.
It was an annual perplexation how Nance would be left off the all-star team and/or the all-league team, while James Worthy seemed to be a lesser player who made the teams by default.
Meanwhile
not only did webber commit far more turnovers ...
According to b-r.com, Webber's career RS TO% was 12.1 vs 11.3 for Nance. This is the % of their 'possessions used' in which they were charged with a TO. With Webber's Ast% of 20.2, vs 11.8 for Nance, not a factor in that TO%, it seems Webber was much the more versatile offensive player.
In RS, their Usg% were Webber 27.1 and Nance 20.6 -- Webber's being 32% higher.
In PO, the difference is 26.7 to 18.7, a difference of 43%.
Nance apparently shrank away from the ball in big games. It's great to have a high shooting%, but not if you don't want to shoot.
he also missed far more shots (7832 missed FGA vs 5294 missed FGA for nance), which is far more defensive rebounds by the opponent, which is far more zero point team possessions webber was personally responsible for than nance...
Michael Jordan missed more shots than almost anyone. Has this line of reasoning ever yielded a clue about a player's overall value?
I don't know why Webber made 5 all-NBA teams, and Nance made none. Maybe he was the best player on one of the best teams?
not including offensive efficiency and player defense skews your all-time listing...
The
Sco column has Effective Shooting% -- same as your
Scoring FG% -- factored in. Turnovers are weighted -1.5 in the T rate. Blocks and steals are +1.5 . (Standardized points and rebounds are 1.0) That's about all I have to go by in the historic record.
Re: NBA-ABA careers ranked, 1952-2016
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 am
by Mike G
Why didn't Larry Nance play more than 36 mpg in his prime and just 33.4 for his career?
Why did a relatively inefficient Chris Webber avg 37 mpg for his career, with 5 seasons over 39?
It's not that Nance played for better/deeper teams, while Webber was carrying weaker teams. Webber's teams won 57% of their RS games vs 54% for Nance. In playoffs, it was 50% to 44%
Some production rates, with the ratios for Webber/Nance:
Code: Select all
Reg Sea mpg ORb% DRb% TRb% Ast% Stl% Blk% TO% Usg%
Webber 37.1 8.2 20.9 14.6 20.2 2.0 2.7 12.1 27.1
Nance 33.4 8.7 18.3 13.6 11.8 1.4 3.8 11.3 20.6
W/N 1.11 .94 1.14 1.07 1.71 1.43 .71 1.07 1.32
per100 FGA FTA TSA Pts Reb Ast Stl Blk TO
Webber 24.8 6.4 27.6 28.3 13.4 5.8 2.0 2.0 3.8
Nance 18.5 6.2 21.2 24.8 11.6 3.8 1.4 3.2 2.7
W/N 1.34 1.03 1.30 1.14 1.16 1.53 1.43 .63 1.41
In Stl+Blk per 100 poss., Nance leads by 4.6-4.0
Last year's ESPN poll ranked Webber #66 all-time and Nance #108. I had Webber 26 spots higher, Nance 34 higher.
In my list, players ranked 51-100 averaged about 5 all-star appearances. Nance (3) should have had a couple more. Worthy (7) ranks #70 by me (thanks to playoffs) and #43 at ESPN.
yes - had webber shot much better, committed far fewer turnovers, and played better defense, he could have been an all-time top 20 player...
Could he have had many fewer TO, considering all the stuff he did?
Since I estimate TO for the old timers, based on their other productions, we can take a look at "expected" vs actual TO rates. From my top 100, the 10 best and worst, by the ratio of the 2:
Code: Select all
a/e turnovers/36 actual exp'd a/e turnovers/36 actual exp'd
.60 Horace Grant 1.23 2.06 1.57 George McGinnis 4.53 2.88
.63 Dirk Nowitzki 1.89 3.01 1.40 Artis Gilmore 3.93 2.80
.68 Shawn Marion 1.60 2.33 1.33 Billy Cunningham 3.90 2.94
.71 Chris Paul 2.51 3.55 1.23 Isiah Thomas 3.79 3.08
.72 Rasheed Wallace 1.69 2.35 1.23 Bob Dandridge 3.01 2.45
.72 Michael Jordan 2.71 3.77 1.23 Alvan Adams 3.40 2.77
.75 Kevin Garnett 2.37 3.17 1.21 Shawn Kemp 3.35 2.78
.75 Reggie Miller 1.85 2.47 1.16 George Gervin 3.19 2.74
.76 Larry Nance 2.00 2.64 1.16 Moses Malone 3.30 2.84
.77 David Robinson 2.59 3.37 1.14 Bob McAdoo 3.32 2.92
- - -
.93 Chris Webber 2.83 3.03
There's Nance with one of the 10 best. Webber is 38th -- about 1 TO per 5 games
fewer than historic avg. Middling for his era, not worse.